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>> Running Subs ?? <<>> $$$<<

Discussion in 'Commercial Snow Removal' started by On a Call, Jan 28, 2015.

  1. On a Call

    On a Call Senior Member
    Messages: 712

    Okay I ran some subs this season most of them did at worst a good job. One did a great job but none of them did fast jobs. I am paying them 50 an hour which is the going rate.

    When I look at plow costs, insurance, fuel and other things I wonder....it is better to just run all subs ?

    Anyone else here run subs or are subs ??

    Pro's and cons....just looking for your input.
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2015
  2. 1olddogtwo

    1olddogtwo PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 11,389

    Wow, that's a low rate. I wouldnt get out of bed for that
  3. On a Call

    On a Call Senior Member
    Messages: 712

    I called around and got prices from other companies running subs. Not trying to be cheap, so what is a good rate ?
  4. John_DeereGreen

    John_DeereGreen PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,711

    50-60 an hour is common for subs here as well.

    Only problem I have with subs is no matter what, I always have the guys with 20 year old half tons and 7.5 Meyer plows calling. By the time I pay them for 2 hours, I can run one of my own trucks for an hour, and cheaper.
  5. JimMarshall

    JimMarshall Senior Member
    from NW PA
    Messages: 785

    That's top dollar for a sub around here. I hate being so close to Erie
  6. On a Call

    On a Call Senior Member
    Messages: 712

    Well at least I know I am paying a fair wage, thought I was.

    Now... how to make money with them :)

    I am lucky though most of my subs are using newer trucks and are there when I need them
  7. leigh

    leigh PlowSite.com Addict
    from CT
    Messages: 1,968

    I have subs,they are either friends or family in construction that don't want the hassle of bidding,billing lia etc.I pay 70$ and up considering the storm,plus they have access to store there plows indoor at my shop.Full access to work on vehicles inside,welders torches,plasma cutters etc.If you can find top notch reliable subs its much cheaper than setting up an additional truck unless its needed year round. Example-10 storms at 700$ per storm,7000$ for season,cant beat that!
  8. dieselss

    dieselss PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 10,739

    Leigh....can I come and work for you, just to work in your shop.
  9. On a Call

    On a Call Senior Member
    Messages: 712

    Leigh, that is fair of you.

    Mind I ask what the going rate per hour is in your area for contractors ?
  10. rjigto4oje

    rjigto4oje PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,255

    I have a 20 year old truck, with a 7.5 blade and wings that makes it 9.5 I've got 15 year's under my belt I am a mechanic though. I don't care what kind of equipment you run everything brakes and needs maintenance unless you are buying new trucks and plows every 3 year's you will have to deal with older trucks. P.s I wouldn't get out of bed for that either
  11. SnoFarmer

    SnoFarmer PlowSite Fanatic
    from N,E. MN
    Messages: 7,902

    I pay subs by the job not the HR,
    No wonder they weren't fast.

    I have them give me a bid then I tell them how much ill pay to have it cleared.

    Also be careful paying them by the hr as they/ you can
    easily turn them into employees.

    for $50 an hr are these "subs" insured?
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2015
  12. leigh

    leigh PlowSite.com Addict
    from CT
    Messages: 1,968

    60$ an hour up to 100+ (heresay only-Fairfield county ct) Loaders get 150 - 200$ , skids 100-125 hr.Were in a high cost of living area though.I'll be up front, total transparency lol,bidding jobs at 200hr, so can afford to pay a good rate.And we don't do hourly billing, that number is our number to bid a fixed price for each lot according to snow totals. Here's an old story,was subbing for a friend of a friend (my 1st plow truck)asked the landscaper I was working for how to bid my own jobs,he said 2-3$ a minute.That was 1986!
  13. Flawless440

    Flawless440 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,543

    I pay my subs per hour and per push....
    7.5-8' plow $50 hour
    8' V plow- $55 a hour
    9'-V or Wideout- $60 hour
    Starting rates

    Subs are great to have.... Less stress than having another one of my trucks on the road..
  14. blazer2plower

    blazer2plower Senior Member
    Messages: 544

    I an a sub. And for $50.00 a hour i don't get out of bed. Alot of it is how you treat them. The guy I work for is great. He calls me a few times a night just to see if I need anything. I have my own route. And I know the faster i get done is less money. But he knows how long it takes to plow my lots.
    He also knows things break down. Or if I cannot make it. I will call him. You must have a good relationship with your sub's talk to them. See what they want or need. Or at least pretend to care. Do you know your sub's? Take them coffee and a donut. When you are out and about. Little things like that will go along way with them.
    As for what they are plowing with. Does it work?
    Just because it is older equipment. Doesn't mean it's junk. How do you pay them. That day end of the week. 2 weeks or when you get payed you pay them? If I had to wait 3+ weeks to get my pay I would take my time as well. The guy I work for. Has a competition with all the sub's. Who can get done the fastest with no accident. At the end of the year will get a $1000.00 dollars.
  15. blazer2plower

    blazer2plower Senior Member
    Messages: 544

    I must be doing something wright. $80.00 an hour. With a 08 1500 Chevy and a 26R plow.
  16. SnoFarmer

    SnoFarmer PlowSite Fanatic
    from N,E. MN
    Messages: 7,902

    There is no way in Hattie that i will pay a contractor by the hr to plow for me, it's just not gunna happen.

    There is no incentive to be productive.

    I think some of you have hired employees and not sub contractors.

    Take this test by the IRS to see.


    How the business pays the worker. An employee is generally guaranteed a regular wage amount for an hourly, weekly, or other period of time. This usually indicates that a worker is an employee, even when the wage or salary is supplemented by a commission. An independent contractor is usually paid by a flat fee for the job. However, it is common in some professions, such as law, to pay independent contractors hourly."


  17. blazer2plower

    blazer2plower Senior Member
    Messages: 544

    I thank alot of it is where you are at.
    Around here I don't thank i could find any sub. Getting paid by the job.
    Yes I know what the IRS says about the being a sub vs employee. It is easier to pay by the hour than by the job. So how would paying the sub work if he started on on lot. Did not get it finished. And was told to go to a different lot. Just to break it open.
  18. SnoFarmer

    SnoFarmer PlowSite Fanatic
    from N,E. MN
    Messages: 7,902

    It has more to do with the undereducated contractors(on both sides)
    and contractors who still do their own taxes Vs a contractor who uses a tax person with ethics.
    Sooner or later you will get audited by the IRS

    your last cenario comes under directing the subcontractor.

    if he plowed 1/2 of the lot before i pulled him off of it for whatever reason, then he gets 1/2 for that lot.

    Its easier to just let him finish the job as he makes more $$$the more lots he clears.
    To pull him off of the job is just poor management of the work force.

    unless for some reason you have a crises.
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2015
  19. blazer2plower

    blazer2plower Senior Member
    Messages: 544

    I have been audited. In fact it was after the guy I sub for was. Nothing was said about how he was paying me. They didn't thank i was paying my taxes. Because it was a no snow year.
  20. SnoFarmer

    SnoFarmer PlowSite Fanatic
    from N,E. MN
    Messages: 7,902


    Now your so called subcontractor, backs up and runs someone over or just hits a fire hydrent.

    His lawyer finds out from him that your treating him as an employee, and not a contractor.

    W,hat do you think he is going to do to get his client and the INS company he works for off of the hook?

    tats right he is going to show that his client was actually an employee for yours and you will be responsible for the accident and paying for workman's comp and withholding etc etc