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Run off refreeze

Discussion in 'Ice Management' started by paponte, Jan 29, 2011.

  1. paponte

    paponte Senior Member
    Messages: 717

    Well with all the snow we've had this season, there are more piles at places than ever before. We run a tight ship, and have every account salted and down to pavement after any event we may have. The problem we have been facing lately is runoff melting during the day, and refreezing at night and causing slight issues in the early morning. Again, these are spotless accounts, and we are talking minimal surface icing. Yet it still causes enough concern for the early arrivals. Aside from literally showing up every morning and salting, which nobody wants to pay for since it just isn't cost efficient for them... what other precautions or measures are you guys taking in regards to covering yourselves in this situation?
     
  2. I have been running into this issue myself what I have been doin is salt the heck out of the area immediately adjacent to the piles. Also have told my guys when they are out and about on other work to carry a few bags of rock with them and check on it and if looks like its enough to get slick if goes below freezin to spread a bag of salt or so on it. I will eat a cost of a few bags of rock to keep my larger customers happy. After all a few bags of rock at around $4 a bag versus a multiple $k account is pocket change!
     
  3. Brian Young

    Brian Young PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 3,382

    Ummmmm salting. There's not a whole lot you can do except to haul it away but I think they would go for the extra saltings,lol
     
  4. paponte

    paponte Senior Member
    Messages: 717

    Yeah, salt is the logical answer of course. Economically like stated, it would literally have to be done on a daily basis till the snow was gone... every morning. For clients, that most have eaten through their snow budgets already almost half way through the season this is not feasible for them. Maybe I should have worded the original question different and asked, how would you guys cover your anus... given this situation and not having the privilege of salting on a daily basis.
     
  5. You are in quite the predicament there with all the snow you've had. As I said I will spread a bag or two at my cost, but I have guys running around doing other non snow related work(building maintenance, janitorial etc) so dont know if that would be feasible for you.
     
  6. all ferris

    all ferris Senior Member
    Messages: 119

    your solution is simple, however, not always possible. Always plow piles to the down hill side of the parking lot.
     
  7. paponte

    paponte Senior Member
    Messages: 717

    Think I am just going to type up a statement explaining that if we are not able to be there every morning to salt, we cannot be responsible for the refreeze of any runoff and have it signed. Just looking to cover my arse.
     
  8. The sad fact is that in todays legal climate we can never do "enough" to cover our azz.....and to think they are the ones wanting us to work for cheaper etc.....wish they had to walk a mile in our shoes.
     
  9. gd8boltman

    gd8boltman Senior Member
    Messages: 326

    Explain the situation to your client

    and haul it away. A little extra $ in your pocket, less slip and fall liability, and all is good.
     
  10. paponte

    paponte Senior Member
    Messages: 717

    You summed it up. Just seems these days people can find fault in your A game. Black and wet don't cut it anymore. Maybe radiant blacktop? :rolleyes:
     
  11. Maclawnco

    Maclawnco Senior Member
    from OH
    Messages: 628

    best plan Thumbs Up
     
  12. cretebaby

    cretebaby PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 4,162

    Sounds to me more like an admission that there is a problem.
     
  13. paponte

    paponte Senior Member
    Messages: 717

    What would you suggest? The entire lot is spotless, hauled out of there twice, and the entire perimeter is stacked up all over again. To salt every morning is not economically feasible, and I can't haul unless they approve it. I don't think it's admitting there is a problem on my end, I see it more as they are tieing my hands and because of that I cannot be legally held responsible. If you have any other ideas I am ears open, that's why I posted. I've never been in this situation before, people being so over budget half way through the season.
     
  14. bristolturf

    bristolturf Senior Member
    Messages: 435

    Personally I would be at my clients places each morning to check the sites. Pay a guy what for maybe 2 hours of work, and if your doing the salting applications per app, you should have a little room in there to throw down some here and there. If they are seasonal, the salt amount should be billed in there so it should be taken care of reguardless. T/M accounts are tough. Either throw a little more salt on the bill depending on size, or just take the small hit. Most sites youre probably not even talking about 25lbs at most. You could probably load up a tailgate salter, and hit all your accounts and still have a decent amount of salt left over (depending on account sizes and number of properties)
     
  15. Kwise

    Kwise Senior Member
    Messages: 123

    Any way you can contain/divert the runoff? Straw bales maybe?
     
  16. cretebaby

    cretebaby PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 4,162

    I suggest checking every day and spreading the little bit necessary. The nominal charge can't be that big of budget issue.
     
  17. paponte

    paponte Senior Member
    Messages: 717

    You would think! We came up with them purchasing bagged material from us, and having their maintenance person police the lot every morning before everyone comes in. In no wa was I going to show up there every morning for a couple of bucks, when they have a maintenance person there anyway. We have a 1yd minimum anytime we de-ice, which they were not willing to pay, unless it snowed. I appreciate all the input.