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Discussion in 'Commercial Snow Removal' started by redman6565, Oct 13, 2008.

  1. redman6565

    redman6565 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,411

    I'm not one to bash the quality of work my competitors perform because 9 out of 10, I respect and more than half of them have helped me out. I respect to the point where I refuse to bid or quote on the lots they have had. They stay away from mine and i stay away from theirs and when either is in a pinch, the other will help out. But lately there's this one guy who is a new all-time low. Let me set the stage: 450,000 SF parking lot i quoted, 5 companies bid the lot. I beat four other guys. At the last second this "guy" throws in a bid half of what i have. half!?! I mean, we're not talking i bid 100.00 and he bid 50.00, we're talking i bid 19,000.00 and he bid 9,750.00 for seasonal rate, mind you, i was low bidder out the original 5 companies, then this doush enters. I dont like winers or those that complain so im going to try and be nice about this. Back to what i first stated, i have a lot of competitors that i have deep respect for, so if they beat me on a lot, i'm okay with that. i'm okay and understand i'm not going to win even half the lots i quote but this situation still bothers me and its been a couple weeks. Pricing like that is why the market around here sucks and why this has turned into such a cut throat business. You want to under cut someone by 5%, 10%...hell even 25% but 50%? That's not right. that's bull sh*t. Guys like this take the fun of snowplowing and i can honestly and truthfully say i have fun when i plow, i really do.
  2. Dhouse

    Dhouse Member
    Messages: 74

    I hear ya, same crap is going on in the Detroit area.
  3. redman6565

    redman6565 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,411

    the sad part is he is doing it for ego, so that he can say he plows all these places; i go after lots for the 15-18 employees i have during the winter, who's, more than half of them, family depends on the hours i can give them to plow.
  4. hydro_37

    hydro_37 PlowSite Veteran
    from iowa
    Messages: 3,790

    Let the lowballer go out of business. The accounts will come looking for you before winter is over.
  5. TCLA

    TCLA 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,696

    Did he get the job?? I would think they will throw it out because of how low it is. If so then you should be in the right position. Even a hard up property manager/owner should see the problem with that bid.

    Dhouse is right, we have some low low ballers and desperado's continuing to screw up the market here. Ridiculously low salting prices. I can't figure why some just give away this type of work. :confused: :cry:

    FISHERBOY Senior Member
    Messages: 542

    I don't want to be friends with any of my competitors, i'm only out for my help and my family, cause its all about the money!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  7. bribrius

    bribrius PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,609

    if you respect your competitors enough not to bid on their lots than who is the other five people that bid on this lot against you? Arent they competitors? You lost me with that one. I see why your upset though its a tad low i guess I would be annoyed too..
    But keep in mind your lower than the other four who bid and they didnt get it either.

    Sounds like your a decent guy bud.

    you would fit the majority i would guess. Charity starts at home.
  8. Jay brown

    Jay brown PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,783

    don't sweat it........he probably just has lower overhead.....or really needs the work....go bid the next job and move on, this guy can't do them all..... look at it this way, the guy with the high bid is probably cussing all you guys....
  9. ducatirider944

    ducatirider944 Senior Member
    from Iowa
    Messages: 469

    Why are you afraid of competition? Are you gouging your clients? Can you plow every lot in your area? Why wouldn't you want to have colleagues to bounce stuff back and forth? Hell you might actually learn a better way of doing something, or do you have everything mastered? I have friends that are in the same business as I am and we help each other out alot. I have learned better ways for doing things from them and they have learned things from me. So since you are in it for the MONEY, couldn't you make more for the same amount of time if you were more proficient? If you are good at what you do and for a fair price are you going to not have work anyways?
  10. tom_mccauley

    tom_mccauley Senior Member
    Messages: 465

    Bad business!, They might be the same people who have to bail you out sometime!!.around here, all the plow guys stick together, and sometimes even help out!!!!:drinkup:

    Good luck on a profitable seasonpayuppayup
  11. cet

    cet PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 7,196

    How much does it snow where you are? How were you going to do nearly 11 acres for $19,000? Might be a good thing you lost it.
  12. Ipushsnow

    Ipushsnow Senior Member
    Messages: 314

    I actually talked to a guy that said he spreads a ton of salt on lot for $20 over his cost per ton. He said "Oh, its so little work, 2 scoops with the skid, 15 minutes to spread it, I think that's fair." My head just about exploded when he said this!! I asked him how much his salter was and explained to him that he would have to spread 175 tons just to pay for the spreader!!!!!!
  13. 04superduty

    04superduty PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,354

    i would make my route so i had to go see how he plows, or does he wait until the business opens then show up.
  14. Jay brown

    Jay brown PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,783

    i'd sub to him
  15. vincent

    vincent Senior Member
    Messages: 171

    Crap happens everyday. But just remember, you will be in business tomorrow and he wont.
  16. RLM

    RLM PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,270

    I think I know who your talking about. If so PM me, I have new some insight.
  17. redman6565

    redman6565 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,411

    snow fall here is an average of 100" inches a year, though two years ago we got around 140 and this year, supposedly, is supposed to be worse.

    i don't bid against those that don't bid on mine. why were there five on this lot? because it just opened it doors, so new stores are fair game in everyone's eyes. i respect those that respect me. like many of you have stated, this is a tough industry and we should stick together, which is what i try to do. i dont nor will i ever bid on certain lots because i know who plows them, respect them and i do use them for ideas/help/anything else.

    for those that asked how he does it. money/inheritance/ego. a lot that size, what would you put? i had two loaders, two pick ups and a bobcat; guarantee you he plows it with a loader and a pick up and that's it. i start at 12:30 a.m. every morning on all my routes, so that i'm done, lot plowed and salted by 7:00 a.m. he starts at 6 a.m.

    the more i think about it, the more pissed off i get at the dumba$$ manager that actually went with him. and yes they did sign with him, mutli-year deal too i believe.
  18. RLM

    RLM PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,270

    Which lot was it ? Walmart or Lowes
  19. Gicon

    Gicon Senior Member
    from MA
    Messages: 989

    Redman, you are looking at it allllll wrongggg. The best thing that can happen is this guy gets the low bid for 9k, takes the contract, cant fulfill it, and gets kicked out. You are the next guy in line for $19,000, you now have the leverage to negotiate more money, because it will probably be mid-season, as well as a MULTI year deal, as you have a proven track record, where this guy probably does not. This is a blessing in disguise. Sit back and let the $hitshow unfold.....trust me.....
  20. Gicon

    Gicon Senior Member
    from MA
    Messages: 989

    Aside of that, $19,000 sounds like an ungodly low amount of money for 100-140" and the lot size you specified. That sounds so low, my stomach turned. I hope I am wrong.