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random thoughts on the 810

Discussion in 'Blizzard Plows Discussion' started by Detroitdan, Oct 3, 2007.

  1. Detroitdan

    Detroitdan PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,937

    Last year I did a couple of big parking lots, a lot of real long runs. Help me out on this: I could never figure out what worked better, stretching it out to the full ten feet and making the most of each run, or putting the wings out to scoop and trying to get about 9 feet all the way to the end. Either way I lost snow off the sides, obviously more with the blade at ten feet and barely angled. I couldn't always do the traditional angle with one wing out and one wing scooped, because I had so many runs I'd build a wall on the side before I got half the lot done. So most all the snow needed to go in one direction.
    What do you think?
     
  2. rtm038

    rtm038 Senior Member
    from NJ
    Messages: 231

    When I had my 810 in 2004, I had the same issues when plowing larger lots. When I was angle-plowing, I'd extend the blade to the max width, angle it all the way right or left, but would lose snow off the outer end. Then I tried curling the outer wing and still lost snow over the side. It didn't matter where I lined-up for the pass, it would still loose snow off to the side.

    At the time, my friend was running a 9" X-blade and it was throwing the snow much better than my 810. Made the switch to the X-blade shortly thereafter and couldn't be happier.

    Not knocking Blizzard, it's just my experience with them.

    Ryan
     
  3. T-MAN

    T-MAN PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,363

    April fools was in the spring guys :dizzy:
    A plow is a plow is a plow, a 10' plow will move more snow then an 8', or 9'. I dont care if it has a lift chain or not !
    If you have snow spilling over the leading outside edge when windrowing, wing in scoop your taking to big a bite. Pickup plows can only handle so much snow in large lots.
    When snow piles up you may have to "Hog out" the lot and re-plow the whole thing. Best way to run the 810 windrowing is full angled leading edge wing cupped, other wing all th eway out straight.
    I would like to see the Fisher x 9' out plow an 810. pumpkin:
     
  4. Mark Oomkes

    Mark Oomkes PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 10,855

    rtm, you're attempting to say that a straight blade is more productive than a Blizzard? :dizzy: :dizzy:

    T-Man pretty well covered that.

    Anyways, what I have found when plowing large lots with a lot of snow is to windrow to the area you want the snow in. Like T stated, leading edge angled all the way forward, trailing edge extended all the way straight out. If you get to a point that you can't windrow anymore, take 3 or more passes with your Blizzard in the bucket blade position, straight on, and plow to the end. Start right next to the windrow and use it to contain the spilloff on that side. Make these passes and then continue windrowing.

    If all the snow has to be carried to one area, it will depend on the amount of snow. In light snowfalls, I windrow it together and then bucket blade it to the end. Obviously, you will have spilloff, but any type of plow will. In heavier accumulations, I will bucket blade the majority of the snow off the lot, then windrow all my spilloff and then carry that to the end. In heavier snows, you will have no choice but to plow a lot twice. It's just that the Blizzard will still be more efficient and get the job done faster than a straight or V.
     
  5. Detroitdan

    Detroitdan PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,937

    Mark, you hit the nail on the head. I like your method of windrowing then scooping.

    Pushing it all in scoop resulted in just having too much snow in front of me, spilling over both sides and the top, and slowing me down pretty good. With leading wing angled and trailing wing extended, no matter what size bite I was taking I was just moving the bulk of the snow to the side instead of the end of the lot, and the snowbanks would get big and stiff so that I couldn't take much bite at all, and still had a lot to plow beyond them.
    I guess I was just wondering if it would have worked better to have it fully extended to 10' and not angled much or at all, or a 9' bucket position. If I recall I ended up pushing it a thousand times in the scoop position, but I made a whole lot more passes than what added up to the size of the lot.

    And just to clarify, the problem wasn't losing snow off the leading edge, I could stay out far enough to prevent that if I were to plow in angled mode. The problem was that the snow was too deep and it was a pretty large area. And in case you weren't aware the 810 can take a bigger bite without losing snow off the leading edge. If you have a 9' X-blade that can plow more than your 10' Blizzard, I think something was wrong with your Blizzard.
     
  6. Mark Oomkes

    Mark Oomkes PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 10,855

    I think I have an idea of what was wrong with it. ;)
     
  7. rtm038

    rtm038 Senior Member
    from NJ
    Messages: 231

    Like I originally stated in my post, I did try it that way and it still spilled out the leading edge.

    I never said a 9' X-blade will "out-plow" an 810, I simply said I made the switch and was much happier with it.

    See above Mark. Yes, a 10' blade will obviously move more snow than 9' in a single pass. However, I think (and said above) that the Fisher seems to do a better job at "throwing/casting" the snow to the side. In the last 3 years, I've known 2 guys that have bought the 810 and sold after using it for one season. I'm not saying that Blizzard plows are pieces of crap, because they can take a good beating without breaking. What I'm saying is that, while I like the idea behind the 810/8611, I think it still needs some work, that's all.
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2007
  8. 4evergreenlawns

    4evergreenlawns Senior Member
    Messages: 552

    Dan,

    Do you have a snow deflector on your 810?? I know from running one with and one without. I did not roll and/or contain as much snow without as with. That might be some of the issue.

    Todd already made the points about windrows, and scooping. So I think it all comes down to knowing how to get the 810 to be most productive in the lot you are plowing based on the conditions.

    I have taken on about 30% more work per truck using Blizzard plows. Now I just wish DD would leave them alone. BUT I would like a ultra mount Blizzard for the green season without a plow mount hanging. However, I am not sure a ultra mount can handle the weight and forces a Blizzard Plow transfers to the truck.

    As for all the this/that/other plow, everyone has their own experiences with brands of all type. If a plow is working for you then best of luck to you. I know what works for me after trying some other configurations. I am sure in my lifetime someone will develope a plow to replace Blizzard.

    Ron G.
     
  9. purpleranger519

    purpleranger519 Senior Member
    from Kansas
    Messages: 536

    Does experience come into play here?
     
  10. Mark Oomkes

    Mark Oomkes PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 10,855

    Experience as far as using a Blizzard? Or just plowing in general?
     
  11. T-MAN

    T-MAN PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,363

    Over all experience yes, I think It does.
    If you have a straight blade and your windrowing, what do you do if snow spills over the front leading edge ?
    Take less of a bite.
    If the lot is big, and you cant get threw it with out snow spilling over what do you do ? Keep moving and dont obsess. Its much quicker to plow it twice very quickly, then once while trying not to make a mess.
    Before my 810 I often did this. You make straight blade runs with the plow to the end but leave strips of snow in between. The snow left in between helps contain the snow in front of the plow. Then come back and windrow the whole lot.
    If guys had issues plowing with there 810's, and switched back to Fisher straights they didnt give them a chance, or didnt learn to use the tool properly. Or they got paid by the hour.
    It takes time to learn how to use a tool or piece of equipment. When I first got my v in 01, it took me some time to figure out that darn western controller. Personally I liked the Western straight better as well, but I also was getting paid hourly as a sub.
    The 810 (like Ron mentions) allows me to take on more work and get it done much quicker then any straight blade I have ever seen.
    As far as the 810's snow throwing/casting ability while windrowing I feel it works as good or better then any straight I have ever seen or run. I do a large facility that measures up to just over 4 acres of pavement. On a light snow of 1.5" I can plow that entire lot by myself in just over an hour. How can I do that ? Because I can take full swipes with the wing cupped forward, and keep the truck moving. My buddy with his 9' western has done it in just under 2 hours and I need twice the salt to clean up. When there is 2.5-4 plus inches this doesn't work. I sure love getting paid for 4 hours work in one hour. I know this is
    not possible with any other plow short of an 8611 LP.
     
  12. Detroitdan

    Detroitdan PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,937

    I have a lot of years experience plowing residential with Fishers, only started doing some commercial lots since I got the Blizzard. I was just wondering what people thought about plowing with a 10 foot straight as opposed to 9 foot scoop. I tried it both ways, was never able to make up my mind which worked better. The times I was referring to were unplowed lots that I was hired last minute and had to plow them with a foot of snow already down.

    I am not a total idiot. I do realize how to keep snow from falling off the side of the blade when windrowing. And the 810 will allow about a 80% pass of the blade compared to a 50% pass with a Fisher. What I meant was when you are making many many runs in deep snow, which worked better for people, 10' or 9' bucket blade. I started in the middle, lot was surrounded on three side so I had to move the snow to one end, and couldn't have big banking on the left and right sides.

    I think what I ended up doing was primarily scoop mode, but I know I was pushing a lot of the same snow more than once, which I hate.
     
  13. Jerre Heyer

    Jerre Heyer Senior Member
    Messages: 948

    Dan from plowing that way and taking videos of guys plowing as well as from our own trucks plowing I can tell you that when you are bull plowing ( straight into the lot ) the 9'3" scoop mode moves more snow per pass even when you take into account the spill off vs 10' as a flat blade.

    Ron's point on the deflector is right on the money. We don't recommend the factory deflector as it points down vs forward and when the blade fills up it does not allow you to carry as much as a forward pointing deflector. Down side to this type is that you get less air flow when traveling. We make ours with a piece of 3 1/2 X 3 1/2 angle across the top of the main blade and a 10" or 12" X 1/2 or 5/8 rubber belting section. As the plow fills up this rises up and makes the plow seem 6-8" taller.

    It does not matter what type of blade you use when bull plowing you will have to clean up. By a little practice you can learn how to make the spill off piles in such a manner that one or two passes in scoop will clean them up completely. This is accomplished by leaving windrow strips between passes that are as small as possible and going back and picking them up.

    Short of a snow blower it's hard to move all the matl in a lot forward for long distances without some type of spill off even if you are running a box on a loader.

    J
     
  14. purpleranger519

    purpleranger519 Senior Member
    from Kansas
    Messages: 536

    Both. Overall and using a Blizzard 810. Using an 810 is different than using a straight blade and yeah, it's going to take some runs to get you famailar with it, but it's not rocket science, so overall experience in my mind is lacking.
     
  15. Detroitdan

    Detroitdan PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,937

    Hey Purple Ranger, are you saying that because I ask Blizzard owner's opinions about methods for utilizing the plow, I must not have any experience? That's certainly a helpful response. Whether or not I have experience doesn't answer my question. That's like saying you can't answer the question, but I will learn how to do it once I get some experience.
    I happen to have a great deal of experience plowing, maybe not as much as kings of the snow like you guys, with a long list of equipment to brag about, but I am not new at this. I have put my time in, long hours behind the plow year after year. But since I bought the Blizzard I decided I could take on some lots in addition to residential work. And once I started doing a couple lots i found it isn't nearly as hard as driveways, just takes longer. But my question here was specifically (and I apologize if I didn't make that clear) about other people's preferred methods for clearing fairly deep snow out of a lot.

    Purple Ranger, after reading over your responses, I can't figure why you even bothered to reply. It seems that all you are trying to do is either 1) make me feel like an inexperienced kid who doesn't belong here with the big boys. or 2) make yourself feel like the bigshot that you apparently must be.

    I would certainly have appreciated any constructive criticism, but just questioning my experience was unnecessary.

    That being said, I would like to thank Mark, Jerre and Ron for bringing their own experience to the table to share. It seems that even when they find themselves answering the same question again, they always have great input and add it graciously.
     
  16. SnoFarmer

    SnoFarmer PlowSite Fanatic
    from N,E. MN
    Messages: 8,503

    I agree,
    Don't take PR so seriously.:nono:

    How much snow do they get in Kansas?;)
    "Snow Kings" in Kansas? Who knew?
    I think you get more experience in one season than
    he gets in 3 seasons.

    Plus a nice heavy blade like a speed wing will do a good job
    back draging loading docks.
    If I didn't need to open up narow cabin roads I would have a blizzard instead of my V plow.
     
  17. Mark Oomkes

    Mark Oomkes PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 10,855

    I wasn't really sure how PR meant it or who he was directing it at. I did not take it that he was pointing at you Dan, but maybe he was. I think it may have been directed at the member who thinks his straight blade does a better job than his Blizzard.

    Either way, I've been plowing for (longer than I should admit) 20+ years, my dad has been plowing for well over twice that long and we still have learned a lot in the past several years by watching equipment operators that are used to moving dirt, sand, etc and can move snow extremely efficiently. That is where I have picked up some of the above ideas of just bulldozing then cleaning up. Used to just windrow the entire lot twice on heavy snowfalls, takes a lot more time than getting rid of as much snow as possible, then cleaning up.

    Nice thing about the Blizzards, you can bulldoze using scoop mode and if it gets to be too much, you can still angle the blade and start losing some snow off the trailing edge but you're still carrying more than a V or straight. Possibilities are just about endless with it.
     
  18. Detroitdan

    Detroitdan PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,937

    Ummm. Oops. That may have been a half hour well wasted.
    Hate to think I went off on somebody who was busting on someone else instead of me. Oh well, he didn't stick up for himself, so I'll do it for him. I don't agree that a 9 footer can be more productive, but I'll hear him out. I think maybe he was referring to how fast you can go and how far the blade can "throw" the snow to one side. He may have a point there, if you did too runs with each blade, perhaps the moldboard shape of the Fisher would allow the higher speed and further distance to the snow pushed away. Whereas the Blizzard going slower would have a larger, heavier windrow that you have to move with the next pass. But I don't know if I believe that, my 810 has a pretty radical curl to it. Then again, the Fisher probably has that nice snowfoil. And maybe more blade height.

    God forbid somebody benefit from someone elses experience rather than get it themselves.
     
  19. Mark Oomkes

    Mark Oomkes PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 10,855

    I'd have to argue about the rolling ability of the Fisher being better than the Blizzard as well. The only plow I've owned that has rolled better than my Blizzards would be..........trying to think of one. OK, my Blizzards roll better than any of them as well. That would include Meyer, Western, Polar (biggest POS in the world) Boss straight, Fisher straight, Viking, Monroe and Daniels.

    PS If you think you wasted time, go back and look at all the time SnoFarmer, ECS and I wasted with LLM Ann Arbor last year. :dizzy: :eek: :dizzy: :cry:
     
  20. rtm038

    rtm038 Senior Member
    from NJ
    Messages: 231

    O.K. everyone, I'll assume you're all talking about me with regards to whether or not a Fisher is more productive than a Blizzard. When did I say that a 9' Fisher X-Blade was more productive than an 810 Blizzard? I'm not bashing Blizzards, just posting my particular experiences with the 810. Whould I buy another 810, probably not. However, I'd think of buying an 8611LP if they weren't so much money, if I had my own commercial lots and Blizzard came out with a better choice of controllers.
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2007