1. Welcome to PlowSite. Notice a fresh look and new features? It’s now easier to share photos and videos, find popular topics fast, and enjoy expanded user profiles. If you have any questions, click HELP at the top or bottom of any page, or send an email to help@plowsite.com. We welcome your feedback.

    Dismiss Notice

Questions For the Guys That Sub Out Work

Discussion in 'Business Fundamentals' started by Mitragorz, Jul 28, 2016.

  1. Mitragorz

    Mitragorz Senior Member
    Messages: 181

    Between driveways and a low-traffic National Guard complex, my little two-truck outfit is full this year. I've never subbed out work before, nothing more than throwing a guy a few bucks to cover a few driveways when I had a truck down.

    I was contacted to give prices for a few banks in the area, and I don't have the resources to personally dedicate equipment to these sites, but I'd still like to try to make a little money off of them (I have a newborn, every little bit helps!)

    My question is about liability. I know that an injured party will sue everybody, but how can I separate myself from the liability of slip-and-falls? How can I place the liability on the sub? I can write it into a contract, that he must provide his own liability insurance, but is that good enough? What if he signs the contract but doesn't actually pick up the GL?

    I DO carry GL for my business. I worked out a good rate with a local ins. company, but that low rate is based on the locations I service now, and the agreement that I stay away from high-traffic areas like malls and shopping centers. I'm sure a bank would qualify as high-traffic and my rates would shoot up.

    I'm waiting on more info on these accounts. If it's a seasonal price they want, it'll be easy to factor in the cost of extra GL, if I need to pick it up. If it's per-push, then I run the risk of being stuck with a large bill and not enough income.

    I'm trying to do this on-the-books and legal as possible.


    Thanks guys. I have a few more questions, but they don't really apply if this doesn't get off the ground.
     
  2. SnoFarmer

    SnoFarmer PlowSite Fanatic
    from N,E. MN
    Messages: 8,512

  3. ponyboy

    ponyboy Senior Member
    Messages: 957

    What national company asked you to do banks
    Walk away don't get involved
    We did TD last year had 8 of them all stores signed off on work every storm
    Other banks had bad service in a different state and I lost my accounts
     
  4. Mitragorz

    Mitragorz Senior Member
    Messages: 181

    I wasn't sure if I would hold some kind of liability for being the one that essentially have the jobs to the sub. I have visions of lawsuit paperwork flying all around.

    Thanks for that link. Employee vs sub... Looks like a muddy line. Most of the info here (http://bridgenex.com/irs-guidelines.html) points to being a sub. But the link you gave makes me lean towards employee.

    A sub can't be told when to work or given instructions? How does that work. "I need you to plow this lot when it snows. You also need to shovel and salt the walks." How do you get around telling a sub in any field what the job is that needs to be done, and when to do it??
     
  5. Mitragorz

    Mitragorz Senior Member
    Messages: 181

    Sent you a PM.
     
  6. Mitragorz

    Mitragorz Senior Member
    Messages: 181

    I think I'm just gonna listen to my gut and let some other guy deal with the hassle. I don't need to drive myself crazy worrying about this stuff.
     
  7. FredG

    FredG 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,214

    You got it and stick with it. Add some accounts when you add another truck-machine to your fleet. I won't comment on the national, It's a dead issue.
     
  8. ponyboy

    ponyboy Senior Member
    Messages: 957

    I'm finding in going back to residential less risk and almost same money in my area
     
  9. SnoFarmer

    SnoFarmer PlowSite Fanatic
    from N,E. MN
    Messages: 8,512

    The sub should know how to plow snow and how to spread salt.

    When you hire a plummer to replace your hot-water heater what do you tell him? (you just hired a contractor. a sub is no different)..

    You can tell them the trigger depth, what time the works need to be done by and the scope of the work.


    you can't tell them what plows/equipment to use, how to plow snow or how to spread the salt.
    Just when the work need to be done.
     
  10. JMHConstruction

    JMHConstruction PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,065

    The contractor I subcontract for makes me add his company to my insurance. That way they are notified if I cancel (or just don't have) my insurance. It's called something, but I'm drawing a blank. It costs the sub a little bit of money (I think mine is 10% of my GL cost or something), but it's worth it to the contractor.
     
  11. Randall Ave

    Randall Ave PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,976

    If an accident happens, everybody gets sued, it's just the way it is. If you have the contract, liability will fall on you, and your sub.
     
  12. ponyboy

    ponyboy Senior Member
    Messages: 957

    No liability for the national company
    You sign and take all of it
    When you signed with a national company you basically are a subcontractor to begin with and then you want to sub it out again there is enough money left to resolve it for anybody to be willing to take it
     
  13. seville009

    seville009 Senior Member
    from CNY
    Messages: 736



    "Additional insured" I think is the term.
     
  14. Mitragorz

    Mitragorz Senior Member
    Messages: 181

    Like I said, I'll just tell them I can't do it. I'm not committed to anything, they cold-called me looking for numbers.

    I don't need the stress, the liability... Or the paperwork!
     
  15. Randall Ave

    Randall Ave PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,976

    That's what your looking for. I do a lot of municipal work. The township is on my policy as a additional insured.
     
  16. Randall Ave

    Randall Ave PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,976

    So your saying this is a Nationals account. He wants to take it on, then sub it out. Big mistake if he doesn't get paid.
     
  17. ponyboy

    ponyboy Senior Member
    Messages: 957

    Yup
    But he is passing on it