1. Welcome to PlowSite. Notice a fresh look and new features? It’s now easier to share photos and videos, find popular topics fast, and enjoy expanded user profiles. If you have any questions, click HELP at the top or bottom of any page, or send an email to help@plowsite.com. We welcome your feedback.

    Dismiss Notice

Push Button Foward and Reverse

Discussion in 'Commercial Snow Removal' started by stroker79, Aug 5, 2008.

  1. stroker79

    stroker79 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,802

    Ok, while its not very necessary it would be a fun project.

    Its been discussed on here before about a using a switch/solenoid to go from foward to reverse.

    I have the solenoid that I would need. Its got a 75 pound push/pull force which will should be plenty.

    My initial thought to activate going from F-R was a momentary foot switch that I have to depress and then hit the switch for whatever direction I want to travel in.

    I crawled under the truck today (the Ford in my sig line) and it should be no real issue to mount the solenoid and hook it up to the bracket/gear selector. The stroke of the solenoid will be the perfect length for going from F to R and back.

    My only issue, when you switch the selector on the trans it moves the lever in the truck. The problem that creates is the lock in the lever when going back into R. I have to slightly pull the shift lever towards me to get it to go into R. Is there a way to bypass this? It looks like its all a mechanical saftey feature so I cant hook up the momentary footswitch to disable the lock into R.

    Does anyone know of a way to disable that? I have not taken the column apart yet but looking at it from the underdash sorta stumps me as i see no solution around the lock initially. Just figured that Id post here and see if anyone knows how to bypass the lock. I do not want to do anything permanent and it is a pretty important safety feature.

    I look foward to some responses!
     
  2. 06HD BOSS

    06HD BOSS 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,611

    count me out of this project :dizzy: :D lol let me know how it goes lol
     
  3. elite1msmith

    elite1msmith 2000 Club Member
    from chicago
    Messages: 2,762

    hell, im in,

    remember - I was the one that told the snow man rep, to put a toggle thunb control on his next plow joystick

    heck you might even live close enough ill give you a hand


    could you "shim" the lever so it was it didnt get stuck? i have never taken one apart but i would assume it wouldnt be anything more than a plate with notches in it? thinking that when you were n a gear the lever would rest in the notches?
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2008
  4. powerjoke

    powerjoke PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,341

    the super duty's would be simple to bypass that particular safety feature on, and it is all under the column plastic. another thought is that the detent spring can be removed for a little easier life on youre solonoid,

    the problem that i see is, that the solonoid may have the proper throw for F-R but what happens when u want t put it in park? are you gonna have to crawl under the truck to disconect the solonoid?


    i think it would be easier on a duramax as it is completely electronic shifted and controlled.........i am sure B&B may even be able to come up with a schematic for it, and i would try it on my 1ton


    on another note......tractors have had powershuttle and powershift's for years......why cant they make a damn 18spd power shift/shuttle trans for a truck? sure it would be a little heavy but my P.O.S. duramax sure could use some more gears (8.2mpg and NO power) :rolleyes:

    PJ
     
  5. elite1msmith

    elite1msmith 2000 Club Member
    from chicago
    Messages: 2,762

    good point, if chevy has that ... im really surprised you chevy guys havent been all over that one
     
  6. elite1msmith

    elite1msmith 2000 Club Member
    from chicago
    Messages: 2,762

    does this solinoid power to push and pull , or is it spring loaded one dirrecton?
     
  7. stroker79

    stroker79 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,802

    PJ you brought up a good point about going into park. Im still trying to figure that one out. I would take the dent out but I dont want the shifter to be loose. I want to make this as bolt on as possible only because I dont want to get too deep in this project. its mostly just something to take my mind off the regular daily grind, lol. I have had these solenoids for awhile just laying in my toolbox.

    I actually think id prefer the electronic shifting only because, your right, I think it would be very easy.
     
  8. stroker79

    stroker79 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,802

    The solenoid will push and pull. I have 2 just in case. I orginally bought them as door poppers for a vehicle I no longer have.
     
  9. powerjoke

    powerjoke PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,341

    one of my motor scraper's has a allison automatic (really really big though) and it has a air shifter on it......and could be hooked up for a couple of electric air valves bla bla i am just thinkin aloud sorry....

    and ELITE: i never really thought about it till i read the trhead title. and i knew exactly what Doug was asking before i read lol....k

    PJ
     
  10. elite1msmith

    elite1msmith 2000 Club Member
    from chicago
    Messages: 2,762

    i can think of a way to do it using two , and you coulkd still have ur park gear.....and low gears, and might even give you some room for adjustment
     
  11. stroker79

    stroker79 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,802


    Yeah 2 is an easy way. Id like to try and just use 1 but well see how it goes.
     
  12. powerjoke

    powerjoke PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,341

    a guy may even have bettter luck with something like a powerwindow regulator/motor directly atached to the shift linkage on the side of the trans.....
     
  13. elite1msmith

    elite1msmith 2000 Club Member
    from chicago
    Messages: 2,762

    lol, if i were you chevy guys...

    id be allover this one ...weres b&b
     
  14. elite1msmith

    elite1msmith 2000 Club Member
    from chicago
    Messages: 2,762

    ok , one solinoid,,, i have an idea.... sliding fiction plate , basicly it would work like this

    you would need to mount sometype of a fiction plate, to ur shift likage, i really dont know what, a peace of a metal file came to mind. ...(im sure you could figure somthing else... and second peace would be monted beside it with the soilnoid attached to it... a spring would hold pressure from one plate to the other

    when you shift into park, you would have to put a little more force into it, because you would be shifting the trans , and also , making the friction plates shift...how much force , well trial and error... might not be as much as you think

    your solidnoid, would be able to pull the trans and i assume it would move back and forth 2 gears... so you would need to first put it in Drive, then reverse manually , to re allign the plates ....but after that its push button....


    if not 2 solonoids would be about ur only option ,
     
  15. elite1msmith

    elite1msmith 2000 Club Member
    from chicago
    Messages: 2,762

    ok, that will work

    but this beats the hell out of that idea... i dont know how well i can explain it... so i may have to draw it for you

    attach a plate to ur shift linkage..... this plate will have 2 notches in it... one forward and one reverse, this will require, alot of tiral and error to get right, but you make those notches a little bigger than the peg that im gonn tell you about .

    you make a "swinging tee" that is a peace of metal. tha looks like a T

    attach the soilinoid to the bottom of it.... then weld a peg to each side of the upper TEE, drile a whole in the middle, and use it as a pivot point...

    and a spring to hold the Tee in a neutral position

    you could shift as normal, but when you put the sifter in drive , neutal , or reverse and use the solinoid, the Tee, would rotate, and catch the notch , pulling the shifter in that dirretion , after the power is cut to the soilnoid, the spring would put it back the Tee in the up right poistion, not touching or effecting ur shifter in anyway... =)

    now this all assums that ur solinoid has a large enough "throw" and if you have to use "leverage" to gain more throw or rotation, that the force of your solniod would be strong enough
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2008
  16. B&B

    B&B PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 12,777

    I could type page after page on this very subject...and I really like the thinking you guys are putting behind this, and I also admire your "inventious" nature as it is an excellent idea for a plow truck, but your opening up a real can of worms here as I've been down this road in the past...

    I designed and built an externally mounted/solenoid shifted Turbo 400 trans several years ago for my last personal plow truck for the exact reasons you guys are thinking, the convenience of a simple forward/reverse gear change...but I spent waaaay more time to get it to work safely, correctly and reliably than it was worth. I started with the simplicity that you guys are thinking but ended up with a rather complex set up in the end as well as a $400 pulse width modulated shifting solenoid that wasn't designed to be water resistant. I do believe someone now makes an add on electronically shifted "kit" for the older GM style transmissions...but its FULLY electronically shifted, no mechanical gear shifter at all. Just one more thing to go wrong at 3am in a dark lot in a blizzard.

    It is possible to do on some later model transmissions, but not on the current 4R100 or TorqueShift 5-speeds in the Super dutys...it either needs to be fully electronically shifted...or fully manually shifted, you can't have both SAFELY, SIMPLY or RELIABLY (< very important on a plow truck!).

    On the Allisons specifically it is possible to shift it fully electronically but you need to fool the TCM while push button shifting due to the fact that the Ally's have the NSBU on the manual lever and your going to be shifting it push button style with the internal shift solenoids..so basically the TCM (trans control module) wont be able to comprehend that the NSBU switch is indicating that its in one gear but you actually have it "manipulated" into another gear entirely. A computer guru could re-write the TCM program to include a specific push button position in the TCM (which is sort of how GM does it with the paddle shift on the Ally 6-speeds) but it certainly wouldn't be a "bolt on" mod then. :cry:

    There is an aftermarket company that has an add on TCM and wiring harness for many of the later model transmissions that does allow paddle shifting...but only in the forward gears....no reverse and it's designed to retro a late trans into an earlier truck, not to work in conjunction with the stock electronics.
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2008
  17. JD Dave

    JD Dave PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 11,046

    You guys should lift weights in the summertime, if the column shifter is making your arm tired.:D
     
  18. powerjoke

    powerjoke PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,341



    you forget.....i have GM junk i have nothing to lose lol
     
  19. elite1msmith

    elite1msmith 2000 Club Member
    from chicago
    Messages: 2,762

    b&b , or alwasy knowlegable for something


    on the GM newer stuff.

    im not sure i fully understood about the NSBU, what you are saying is that while we might push a button , to put the trans in a different gear the manuel shift lever might say otherwise, and cause a computer error? can you just bypass the manuel shifter, cutting power to it? and recreate what it does using relays and switches, or if it is a 2 wire , resistace system , measure the resistance and recreate it?
     
  20. powerjoke

    powerjoke PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,341

    i am 100% sure it is completely possible but it may take someone smarter than me to wire/program it.