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Pump motor will randomly run and not turn off

Discussion in 'Western Plows Discussion' started by Bountyhunter, Dec 16, 2013.

  1. Bountyhunter

    Bountyhunter Junior Member
    from Kansas
    Messages: 8

    My new to me Unimount plow works fine when using the joystick controller. However, every now and then the motor will randomly turn on and run continuously. The only way to get it to stop is to unplug the power cable to it. Shutting off the joystick controller will not stop it. I am thinking something is shorting out in the solenoid, but I'm not sure as this is my first plow.
     
  2. tuney443

    tuney443 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,847

    Same thing just started on my Boss.It's the solenoid.Just change it.Advice by B&B,I have my new Trombetta ''bear'' series solenoid coming today from Murcal--all the solenoid you will ever need.
     
  3. mishnick

    mishnick 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,243

    You need to narrow down if it's the motor relay (it's not a solenoid) or the wiring / controller telling the relay to stay closed. Next time it stays running disconnect one of the two small wires from the relay. If the motor shuts off then it is controller or wiring. If it does not shut off then replace the relay. But I am a bit confused. Does it "turn on" by itself and then stay on? Usually motor relays will fail to connect or to release (shut off) when you ask for up, left or right. If it randomly turns on and won't stop when you unplug the controller then you probably have a pinched wiring harness between controller and relay.
     
  4. kimber750

    kimber750 PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 3,663

    relay (rl)
    An electrical switch that is operated by an electromagnet, such as a solenoid. When a small current passes through the electromagnet's coiled wire, it produces a magnetic field that attracts a movable iron bar, causing it to pivot and open or close the switch.


    Agree with tuney here. Over time the little return spring inside the solenoid gets weak and cannot break the contacts. Rare for it to get weak to the point that it randomly makes contact on its own but guess anything is possible.
     
  5. Bountyhunter

    Bountyhunter Junior Member
    from Kansas
    Messages: 8

    I do need to clarify a little. Yes, once I move it(doesn't matter up, down, side) then the motor continues to run until I unplug the power to it. I just hurried up and tried to shut it off at the controller and then unplugged it as I was not sure if it was bad for it to just run like that. I was in a bit of a panic. I will try to disconnect one of the little wires next time it happens.
     
  6. maxwellp

    maxwellp PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,112

    TROMBETTA 12 VOLT 4 TERMINAL SOLENOID 200 AMP CONTINUOUS DUTY 114-1211-020

    Did you get this one?
     
  7. maxwellp

    maxwellp PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,112

    Really sounds like a weak solenoid. Try pulling the small wires.
     
  8. tuney443

    tuney443 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,847

    Yes sir I did.
     
  9. mishnick

    mishnick 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,243

    So??? did changing the motor relay / solenoid (as you guys call it) correct the problem???
     
  10. Bountyhunter

    Bountyhunter Junior Member
    from Kansas
    Messages: 8

    I have not had time to change it out yet. I hope to this weekend.
     
  11. MattR

    MattR Senior Member
    Messages: 218

    People have been referring to those devices as Solenoid long before they were referred to as a Motor Relay. Maybe I am just showing my age I guess...lol. Or could be that sometimes things are called different names outside the USA too.


    Anyways, same exact thing happened to me a few years ago, definitely a solenoid. Always good to have a spare one on hand too.
     
  12. mishnick

    mishnick 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,243

    The history of the terminology goes way back to the early 1900s in France. The original solenoid was just an empty coil of wire in which magnetic experiments could be performed. When I taught automotive electronics back in the 70s with the Canadian Military they were very specific about the correct application. A solenoid was something that provided external, linear motion like that of a starter solenoid that pulls the pinion gear into the ring gear or flywheel. It has both a switch and external linier motion. But a relay, such as the one used for the plow motor, has no external motion. The only thing that happens outside the unit is that current is either passed through or blocked.

    People have called these relays solenoids for a long time and those who choose not to adapt will continue. But it sure makes it easier when customers can effectively and accurately express their complaints. When someone calls and says "my snow pushy thing has a red dewhicky beside the spinny thing and it's broken, how much does that red dewhicky cost"? I try to teach my customers clear and correct terminology regardless of what the "old boys" have called it for years. Think of how important it would be calling in to 911 saying your Johnson just got bit by a rattler just before you pass out..... Same thing, terminology and education. It's important..
     
  13. MattR

    MattR Senior Member
    Messages: 218

    Hmmmm Maybe you need to visit my area then. The service shops that work on plows call them solenoids also to their customers. They even write SOLENOID right on the repair bill. But then again what do I know... right? Like I stated before, maybe in your area it is commonly referred to as a motor relay, and the common term by me is solenoid.

    I am sure if you called 911 because a rattler bit your Johnson, the dispatcher would know exactly what you are talking about. Now if you call it a dewhicky, there might be some confusion...lol.
     
  14. maxwellp

    maxwellp PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,112

    We could call it a Contactor.

    From my point of view it started with "starter solenoid" on a starter, but then there was the Ford that had the Solenoid hanging on the fender. Now that happens to look like some plow solenoids.

    I call High Amp ones Solenoids.
    Low amp Relays.

    Anthing in a building a Contactor.
    If I would go to the plow parts guy around here and ask for a plow motor relay, I would get a dumb look and he would "a realy---- how about a solenoid"

    But in the correct terms a solenoid is supposed to push or pull something.
     
  15. mishnick

    mishnick 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,243

    If everyone called their dick a vagina would u call it the same?
     
  16. kimber750

    kimber750 PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 3,663

    If you want to start a pissing match over relays and solenoids at least start your own thread. Thumbs Up

    images.jpg
     
    CaliO likes this.
  17. tuney443

    tuney443 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,847

    ''If you want to start a pissing match over relays and solenoids at least start your own thread. ''

    X2
     
  18. upplowin

    upplowin Member
    from UP/MI
    Messages: 54

    My plow was doing the same thing. Motor would stick/stay on when you push either button. I could jump the "solenoid" or "relay" whatever you call it in your area, and I couldn't get it to repeat the same action. Then I just unplugged the controller from the harness under my dash, inside the cab, not outside at the plug. It stopped every time I unplugged it. Now, a few things could make your motor keep running or stay on. 1) an open ground, 2) a short in the controlled harness somewhere, 3) your controller shorted out, 4) solenoid bad. It turned out in my case that the controller circuit board was shorted out. I replaced it and fixed the problem. I also use a western continuous duty solenoid too, I have had good results with them they hold up good.
     
    CaliO likes this.