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Pump fluid

Discussion in 'Truck & Equipment Repair' started by greatlawns, Dec 7, 2006.

  1. greatlawns

    greatlawns Junior Member
    from NJ
    Messages: 9

    Hey everyone,

    I've been plowing for a couple years now, but until now have been using a Meyer plow with Meyer fluid. I recently got a used (excellent condition) Western 7-1/2' plow for my Tahoe and have another of the same Western on my '94 Ford F250. Both are filled with red "ATF" style fluid, but I was told by a plow shop to put in the Fisher fluid because it has antifreeze in it. They told me that if I just add that to the existing fluid, it will gel up and cause the pump not to work. They said to drain the fluid from the pump, disconnect the lines to the angle rams and drain all of the fluid and then add the Fisher stuff. I am afraid of not getting it all out and then causing myself bigger problems by using this Fisher fluid.

    Is all this necessary? Will it really gel up? If so, would I just be better off getting the red ATF fluid and topping it off? Is there really any major difference between the Meyer, Fisher, Western fluid? Thanks for the help, this is a great site!
     
  2. SnoFarmer

    SnoFarmer PlowSite Fanatic
    from N,E. MN
    Messages: 8,518

    This is not a slam but Boss fluid is best then Meyer's they have a flush also, fisher etc
    the cheep blue sstuff etc.

    You can use ATF a lot of folks do and have for years.
    Atf can get to thick if the temps fall below O.

    I think the dealer was just trying to get you to have them do the fluid change.

    You should have no problems with the fluid gelling.

    Just drain out the old fluid as you mentioned and refill.



    Welcome to PlowSite:waving:
     
  3. BobC

    BobC Senior Member
    Messages: 129

    I have BOSS and would love to use their fluid because of the low temp. flow. But my Boss dealers haven't bothered to get any quarts in the last 2 months. Love my plow but are unhappy with dealers (2) lack of support products. Boss needs to make sure dealers carry stock or give to another dealer.
     
  4. cincy snowdog

    cincy snowdog Senior Member
    Messages: 262

    few westerns here we use atf and never a problem,if you ever do, just heat the pump up for few with heat gun or hair dryer,drain ,refill. quart of atf alot cheaper than special fluid.

    on other hand meyers pumps are more sensitive and they will jel up,it is more expensive but never had a problem with blue fluid.fisher too


    just my 2 cent
     
  5. SnoFarmer

    SnoFarmer PlowSite Fanatic
    from N,E. MN
    Messages: 8,518

    More sensitive to what?
    How does being more sensitive make the Atf gel up.?
    Atf will only gel if it gets to cold.

    .Atf has wax (paraffin) it in that will separate from the fluid at low temps and clog your filter with stuff that will look like gel or goo.

    Any good hydraulic fluid is better than ATF.
     
  6. BobC

    BobC Senior Member
    Messages: 129

    For the few extra dollars I would rather use plow makers fluids which flow better at freezing temps. For 5 or 6 bucks not going to try to heat up pumps my time is worth more, besides the possible extra amp draw of a pump pushing thickened fluids. Also way risk a malfunction when you count on the plow.
     
  7. Lawnscape89

    Lawnscape89 Senior Member
    Messages: 213

    IMO, I'd rather spend $30 for a fluid change and know that in the middle of a cold, snowy night I don't have to worry about finding an outlet for a heat gun to warm up my pump. In the long run, you'd be much better with the fluid change, replacing the ATF with the dealer recommended fluid. Again, JMO.
     
  8. greatlawns

    greatlawns Junior Member
    from NJ
    Messages: 9

    As a follow-up, I downloaded and read the Western plow owner's manual and it actually SAYS to use ATF fluid for their plow. Like you all, I find it hard to believe that ATF fluid is recommended over a fluid designed to work in cold temps.

    Does anyone here use anything else other than the ATF recommended by Western in their plows???

    :dizzy:
     
  9. cincy snowdog

    cincy snowdog Senior Member
    Messages: 262

    snow what i was saying atf in my meyers didnt work well,it was like the meyers ports and such are smaller,as far as western the manual is stating to use atf,i was stating we have used it for years , but we are in a dif, temp climate than you.I can use atf here,you may not be able too,$1.59 quart is reasonable to me here versus 15 qt for blue glacier.
     
  10. basher

    basher PlowSite Fanatic
    from 19707
    Messages: 8,992


    Western has a "high Performance hydraulic fluid" available. They (western) recommend the use of the higher performance fluids in the older temps. Atf should not be used below -10F a temperature easy to achieve when you factor in wind chill at 45 mph traveling from job to job. Atf will cause higher amp draws due to forcing thicker fluid though small ports. ATF works fine in the higher temps. Mixing incompatible fluids can cause jelling as will extremely low temperatures.

    Western recommendations are contained on this web page
    http://www.westernplows.com/pdf/63097.05_060105.pdf

    Fluid options and specs. are on this page
    http://www.westernplows.com/pdf/21936_120198.pdf
     
  11. ThisIsMe

    ThisIsMe Senior Member
    from Mass
    Messages: 745

    Huh?....Wind chill does what?

    If it is 10 degrees out and your drive 10,000 MPH down the road for 100 miles........guess what? The coldest the ATF is going to be ................well...............is 10 degrees.

    Wind is not going to reduce the temperature of anything below the ambient temp. If this were true our refrigerators would be nothing more then fans.
     
  12. SnoFarmer

    SnoFarmer PlowSite Fanatic
    from N,E. MN
    Messages: 8,518

    basher,
    . What is windchill temperature?

    A. The windchill temperature is how cold people and animals feel when outside. Windchill is based on the rate of heat loss from exposed skin caused by wind and cold. As the wind increases, it draws heat from the body, driving down skin temperature and eventually the internal body temperature. Therefore, the wind makes it FEEL much colder. If the temperature is 0 degrees Fahrenheit and the wind is blowing at 15 mph, the windchill is -19 degrees Fahrenheit. At this windchill temperature, exposed skin can freeze in 30 minutes.

    2. Can windchill impact my plow or exposed water pipe?

    A. The only effect windchill has on inanimate objects, such as plows and water pipes, is to shorten the amount of time for the object to cool. The inanimate object will not cool below the actual air temperature. For example, if the temperature outside is -5 degrees Fahrenheit and the windchill temperature is -31 degrees Fahrenheit, then your plow will not drop lower than -5 degrees Fahrenheit.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2006
  13. wow

    Atf Works Fine On Eastern Long Island. With The Wind Chill Hahah. But I Do Use Blue Fluid In My Myers Ive Ben Told The Myers O Rings Wont Take The Atf They Would Swell Up But I Don't Know For Shore?
     
  14. MBB

    MBB Senior Member
    Messages: 129

    Just got thru checking this out between a blizzard, snoway, western plows, did not want to stock 3 fluids, ( western does say atf, spx pumps say Dextron 3)( spx supplies pump and valve body to Blizzard) Snow way says no zinc. So went to fluid supply dealer found out as muich as we could on each fluid spec, Net result was Low temp fluid = mineral oil base 56aw. Their specific product is called Flow MIte 530ZF( ZF= zink free) $ 54.85/5gal ( includes local sales tax). ($2.74 qt) meets or exceeds everything we found spec wise. I like this price much better than (around here) $6-8/qt for name brand low temp.
    Hyd fluids, 32aw, 42aw, 56aw, 68aw, first 2 numbers refer to neg temp fluid will hold its specs to with out gelling ect. Mineral based fluids are what typicaly refered to as aircraft grade. hope this helps.
     
  15. Detroitdan

    Detroitdan PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,937

    so does that mean I can buy 32 hydraulic oil (fluid, same thing right?) for my Blizzard?
     
  16. basher

    basher PlowSite Fanatic
    from 19707
    Messages: 8,992

    My bad, poorly stated, I agree, never colder then ambient temp. It will reach ambient temp much faster.
    Units never seem to freeze while using them, it's always "it worked great, then i stopped for coffee and when i came out it raised real slow then wouldn't drop" It seems like any internal warmth the units build is removed by "wind chill" when traveling.
     
  17. ThisIsMe

    ThisIsMe Senior Member
    from Mass
    Messages: 745

    No Dan.

    You must and only must use Blizzard oil for your plow. Blizzard oil is made specifically for the off the shelf hoses, off the shelf pumps, off the shelf cylinders. Even though thousands of these devices are run throughout the world on other devices with normal non Blizzard hydraulic fluid, for some god unknown reason you have to use Blizzard oil in your plow.

    Using any other fluid will void your warranty, cause you plow to stop working, cause global warming, deplete half the rain forests, cause more hunger for another 1,000,000 people, kill off the dolphins, result in poor snow removal, increase costumer complaints, not allow Blizzard's VP of Marketing to obtain his new pool next spring.

    Do not pay attention to any backhoe or loader running normal hydraulic fluid at -10F. You still need the special super secret additives that are specifically designed for Blizzard plows. Not only designed for the plows but the profits at Blizzard.

    Sorry feeling silly tonight. :drinkup:
    Chris

    PS please swap out Blizzard with the manufacture of your choice.
     
  18. Detroitdan

    Detroitdan PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,937

    that's what I thought, but I just wanted to make sure. too bad about the dolphins, though. although some around here feel that they deserve it after the whipping they gave the Patriots.

    How come people get upset about dolphins getting caught in tuna nets, but nobody cares about tuna getting caught in tuna nets?
     
  19. ThisIsMe

    ThisIsMe Senior Member
    from Mass
    Messages: 745

    Because they never had a lovable TV show or song about tuna. :)

    Well that and plus tuna are tasty.

    Chris
     
  20. Ggg6

    Ggg6 Senior Member
    from IL
    Messages: 521

    Because the tuna nets are for tuna only. What about the tuna that get cought in dolphin nets?? I bet that would be bad because those nets are for dolphin only. You can't go mixing the species and nets you know.:dizzy: