1. Welcome to PlowSite. Notice a fresh look and new features? It’s now easier to share photos and videos, find popular topics fast, and enjoy expanded user profiles. If you have any questions, click HELP at the top or bottom of any page, or send an email to help@plowsite.com. We welcome your feedback.

    Dismiss Notice

Problem

Discussion in 'Commercial Snow Removal' started by plow123, Dec 18, 2008.

  1. plow123

    plow123 Junior Member
    Messages: 4

    :realmad:Does anybody else have their relatives working with them? (i know first mistake. DUH!!!!) my father in law does not know your suppose to turn the plow so you don't get plow streaks on either side when you plow. IT'S MADENING to see him plow the same strip 4 - 8 times !!!!!!! what i didn't tell you is it's his sons little bitty business and he's 25 and he's still a daddys f*#^!:*) boy.:help:
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2008
  2. carl b

    carl b PlowSite.com Addict
    from Ohio
    Messages: 1,330

    just reteach him . or let him ride with you . :D
     
  3. hydro_37

    hydro_37 PlowSite Veteran
    from iowa
    Messages: 3,790

    My brother has worked for me for several years. No problems.
    Whatever you do...DO NOT ride in the truck with him and scream directions.
    Let him ride along or let him plow and then offer advice.
     
  4. derekbroerse

    derekbroerse 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,377

    I've got a new guy this year, a friend of mine, and the good part is he's not dangerous--he's slow and careful.. Bad part is he's got a 6'-6" blade and uses about the first 12-18" of it and can't seem to reverse straight. Trying to explain to him that he needs to move over as he backs up, like parallel parking but with no cars to hit... yet he will back over the same snowpile again and again and again until its a speed bump! Also sitting crossways on a major street while thinking which way to turn the wheels and point the plow for 15 seconds isn't a good thing either. :eek:

    I hope he improves. Its mainly driving technique, not even snow plowing technique, thats lacking.

    I'm very glad to have him though, its just hard for me to watch as an experienced driver and plow operator... trying very hard to keep from getting frustrated or intimidating him by watching. But I know what you mean by watching the same snow moving again and again and again, inching its way across the parking lot... :D
     
  5. jwkv

    jwkv Member
    Messages: 58

    Always remember. We were all new to plowing at some time or other.... What did you do when you were learning?
     
  6. TerrForms

    TerrForms Member
    Messages: 78

    it's not easy!

    Had a nice kid, about 20 working for us. No matter how many time we went over things couldn't understand the truck. He now pushers a shovel.
    Good luck
     
  7. derekbroerse

    derekbroerse 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,377

    Oh don't get me wrong, I agree, its just that he doesn't take instruction well.

    Its just inexperience in general driving, not anyones fault... needs to practice a few techniques and try and maintain spacial awareness around him...
     
  8. LoneCowboy

    LoneCowboy PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,760

    My wife runs the tractor (TC45) when we have a plowable event (over 2") (not just shoveling).

    The first couple storms were TOUGH, I tried to bite my tongue. But sometimes, as you say, you want to scream. Sometimes people just have to learn, but you have to point things out too or they won't know how to do it better. Trust me, I see lots of people plow (unrelated, not with my company) that make me chuckle, it's not just relatives.

    She's gotten much better, although she still sets up wrong sometimes (so she ends up plowing over the same spot twice), but it's getting smaller as she goes on.

    At least she's stopped running into stuff. (she runs it in the summer too -- I run the TN75) and many a fence post has met it's death due to my wife. :rolleyes:
     
  9. ff1221

    ff1221 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,328

    I can relate, a buddy of mine plows for me on weekends, and on Monday I head into a lot, and think "what the H@!! was he doing, why'd he put the snow there, etc etc" But he won't charge me anything, so I just bite my tongue and be glad he is there to help out. It's frustrating to watch because as experienced operators we wonder how new guys can't see the obvious, and we are all positive that when we started plowing we were much better than them, whn in all reality, we probably weren't, but I'll keep on believing I was.:D
     
  10. Winterized

    Winterized Senior Member
    Messages: 120

    Really not the same thing because it was never any money out of my pocket... this was a government operation.

    I worked for years with people from 18 into their 60s. High school Summer help.... guys that needed to work off their welfare money.... and every sort in between. Sometimes drunk... bad attitudes... sometimes the best guys in the world, just down on their luck.

    Never got mad at them... treated everybody with respect. The worst of the guys, I would tell the boss I would not work with them. Meaning they could not work safely and were a danger to themselves and others. Had guys wonder off and sleep for a while... hey no problem.

    What I'm saying is 90% of the time everybody would come around to at least working up their ability if you treated them with some respect. However if I was paying their wages.... NEVER would have had the time or temperment for all the babysitting required!

    There are a lot of sad cases out there!!
     
  11. MAR4CARS

    MAR4CARS Senior Member
    Messages: 246

    My brother plows i have no issues.
     
  12. LwnmwrMan22

    LwnmwrMan22 PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 27,977

    My dad plowed with me for years.

    Best thing I ever did was put a V-plow on the front of his truck.

    He was used to plowing with an "OLD" straight blade from YEARS ago, and wouldn't angle the plow.

    I hired a cousin's husband this year, he's NEVER plowed. NEVER shoveled sidewalks. My dad is now 74 and it's getting hard on him, especially the days when it's 12-18 hours of plowing. I had my dad ride with my cousin starting out this year, to show him the ropes.

    He's slow, it takes a while to find your groove.

    One thing that's helped / hindered at the same time, we've plowed 6 times in 2 weeks. It's made him learn REAL fast, and he's catching on, but there's still places here and there where I have to point out something after each storm.

    He'll get it.
     
  13. derekbroerse

    derekbroerse 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,377

    Well, I'm trying to be patient, but driving (I believe) is either a got-it-or-don't kinda thing. I'm afraid my guy may not have it. :( He's learning some, but its some of the basics that are killing me. And having absolutely zero understanding of how a vehicle works....

    Case in point, S15 blew the serpentine belt--no biggie I saw it was cracked tho it didn't look like it was about to let go--I bought a new one and had it there, just never got to put it on. But he calls me, and tells me I need to come look at the truck because he thinks its overheating, its steaming and gurgling. So I'm scratching my head a bit, bad to come from the next town over to see... open the hood and there is no sign of the belt. I asked if he noticed that, answer was 'ya'... so why not tell me? And why not mention the charge light being on and lack of powersteering?

    Second problem that way--get a call to pull him out of our shop driveway--says he's stuck and him and the shoveller can't free it up.. Dad's at home, so I ask him to go look, use the tractor if necessary to yank him, get them back to work while I keep plowing. Dad calls me back ten minutes later says they're not stuck, they've managed to burn up my new one week old transmission! After a string of cursing I came home to see the oil totally black from being burnt up. Between two of them, no one notice that none of the wheels were turning??? Or that the truck wasn't even trying to lunge and get hung up??

    The tranny really hurts. Its up at my brothers place tonight being torn down for diagnosis. Theres no warranty on it, cuz I had it built six or so years ago for another project that never happened... just paid some tranny shop to install it for me. The more I think about it, they probably couldn't have done anything THAT badly wrong to burn it up in two snowstorms, it must have been a faulty part that failed--but sitting there revving the piss outta it trying to get -unstuck- instead of having the slightest feel that something is wrong... now I think its hopelessly burnt. I've never seen black ATF before, its that bad. It was nice cherry red at the beginning of the evening... checked it myself before it went out. So it makes me wonder--how long did they sit there thinking they were digging holes to China before they even got out? Or did they? Its all under a high pressure sodium yard light, you could tell immediately if you were spinning tires or not....

    :S
     
  14. LwnmwrMan22

    LwnmwrMan22 PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 27,977

    Derek -

    For what it's worth, I've got a guy that's completely inept with mechanical stuff, so I know what you're going through.

    Probably the only difference is he's overly quick to call me if he THINKS there's something wrong, instead of waiting for something to be wrong, he's almost the opposite of your guys.

    Anyways, I'm with you, there's definately a difference when you find someone that's got "it" when it comes to plowing.

    One guy I hired this year went from shoveler at $10 per hour to driver at $30 per hour after the first storm, once I realized his abilities were being wasted behind the shovel.
     
  15. TLB

    TLB Senior Member
    Messages: 274

    My wife went with me a few times, now she wants to do some plowing, I can just see her butchering up lawns:dizzy:
    I think I will hide the key's:rolleyes:
     
  16. BMWSTUD25

    BMWSTUD25 Senior Member
    Messages: 630

    I have worked side by side with my cousin on almost every type of landscaping job you can imagine and all positive. We're only a year a part and both young but the way we grew up was almost like twins. Its actually scary sometimes how we each know what the other is going to do. We both have our own strengths and weaknesses in certain areas over the other but who ever should be leading always seems to imerge. I know working with family is usually very hard but the way we mesh together is almost unbelievable. but to answer the question yes, I work with family (1 person) and I wouldnt have it any other way!
     
  17. derekbroerse

    derekbroerse 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,377


    Ya, that could be very frustrating too.

    On the tranny, thank goodness my brother took the time to dabble in 700R4's and has the weekend off--he's been working at getting it out and apart. He says the pan is full of metal fragments--not friction material, hard part has shattered. He thinks its either sun shell or input shaft by what he tested (that was at 7pm and I havent heard since). He says abuse. I wish I knew what my driver did, if nothing else so he can learn NOT to do that again!

    Gonna make him stay in low range from now on! Just to be safe... tho I did some plowing with the truck and it never seemed to struggle at all. Personally, I suspect he got stuck and tried to rock it out but didn't know how, likely slamming it Forward to Reverse with the throttle on or something...?

    He may have to go back to shovel, or just salting...
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2008
  18. BigLebowski

    BigLebowski Junior Member
    Messages: 26

    I find it extremely impossible that somebody could destroy a perfect transmission in two storms (notice the assumption is that the tranny is perfect). Now before anybody wants to share their tranny destroying stories, I say this with two guys in the truck and not even knowing them, I'd guess they were not going out of there way to wreck the truck. I'd put big money on a faulty transmission. My guess is that if you were driving it the result would have been the same. I mean seriously, 2 storms and THEY are to blame? You should fire the rebuilder and not the driver. Think about it. All the things on the truck that could have given up, the newest part is the one that does and the driver is the ass? Hardly.

    However, I understand your anger of a wrecked tranny after just installing it, but I'd say if your reaction (over over-reaction) to situations causes you to blow up, lash out and point fingers, it may be quite possible that these guys hold you in a very low regard and did try to destroy your truck. Not saying you do that.

    I do say all this as a guy that is reading words on a screen. I don't know you, your transmission or your guys. Just one guys opinion and point of view.
     
  19. BMWSTUD25

    BMWSTUD25 Senior Member
    Messages: 630

    you can most def wreck a tranny in a hurry if they are new and not stopping completely before throwing it in reverse. this over two large storms will put it through hell and then I could see it going. but outside of that, not sure you could peg it on him.
     
  20. derekbroerse

    derekbroerse 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,377

    Don't misunderstand, I'm just frustrated. We don't really know what went wrong in the tranny, or what caused it. ie: what order things failed. All I know for certain is the pump is blown up, planetaries are wrecked, tons of melted nylon thru the whole tranny, band and forward clutches not burnt but flaking apart from heat...? Stuck throttle valve... governor... the list goes on and on. Its really bizarre. Its being rebuilt again up at my brothers place, all I can do is cross my fingers and hope for the best.

    We can't tell if he abused it to death, faulty build, or just the fact that I've had it sitting around in the garage unused all this time. All I know is that it was one hell of a lot of money down the tubes very quickly, and that my reserve fund is pretty well used up already. There's been so much money going out the past two monthes I'm literally facing financial ruin. Last night I got to sleep and feel a lot better. I'm still waiting on Novembers payments, tho the biggest customer says he'll hand deliver it this week if it helps. I appreciate guys like that.