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problem lifting the blade shortly after putting new pumps in

Discussion in 'Blizzard Plows Discussion' started by cl733, Dec 31, 2015.

  1. cl733

    cl733 Senior Member
    from Canada
    Messages: 252

    Don't have all the details on this one yet as I haven't looked at the blade actually my self, its a friends friend.
    Its a blizzard without wings, and late last winter he takes out a pump, puts in a new one and finishes off the year.
    So this year he takes out his new pump again, buys a new one and before long it wont even pick up the blade, upon taking it apart I seen pictures where it has scored up the pump body from the back side of the input gear.
    So its still snowing , so I lend him a pump I took out of my 810, it was a kp16, (that should age the blade) the pump worked fine for me, I just took it out to upgrade to a kp31, the pump was still nice and tight and worked fine in my blade.
    So he puts the pump in, and right away he is saying it lifts the blade slow, but he goes plowing anyways, so I tell him that maybe hes got other problems and should pressure test it and see what hes got for pressure, he comes up with almost 1000psi
    So the friend and him try cranking up some relief valve, which they weren't even sure was the right one but nothing changes
    He is using atf4 for oil , not sure how much crap he has floating thru the system, question is , is there any other cartridge that could be responsible for the low pressure, or any other reason for the low pressure.
    Im not suspecting the pump as I know its history, it lifted my 810 with the small lift cylinder just fine
    Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated
     
  2. TJS

    TJS PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,339

    Pressure does not control speed the volume does. Fenner pumps are pretty good and what is good about them is they are modify-able by putting larger pumps in them in which you have for speed. A 1.6cc/rev pump is going to be slow and even slower if a heavier blade. However you need to watch your electrical system as you put a larger CC pump in, it will tax the electrical system and may get diminishing returns on youy pump performance if you have a one system weak battery and mediocre alternator. I have a Fenner pump and put a 3.1 CC/Rev pump in. I have dual batteries and a pretty good alternator. I also upgraded my motor to an HD full ball bearing motor. This year I also replaced my main relief spring and ball for the 3000 PSI (heavy black color I think), I think stock are 2000 psi springs. This allows for more lifting force. I have yet to have snow to try it out, but I need to get a gauge on it to see where I need to adjust my pressure. I was turning up my main relief so much that the hex cap with the O-ring would barely screw on to the adjusting screw (fenner people know what I am talking about), hence why I went with a heavier main relief spring. Sounds like your buddies might be cranking on the cross over relief and not the main relief.
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2015
  3. bliz&hinikerDLR

    bliz&hinikerDLR Senior Member
    Messages: 471

    Pretty sure your friends plow is grounding through the pump. This causes arcing inside the pump and damages the pump real fast. Solution: when you replace the pump, remove the motor and clean the mating surfaces of the motor and relief block. Also, add a ground post on the motor and move all the grounds to that post.
     
  4. cl733

    cl733 Senior Member
    from Canada
    Messages: 252

    Could be as he didn't get 10 hrs out of the last 2 pumps
    I was looking through some of the blizzard service manuals , and seen that a 03 blade vs an 04 blade, the 03 had a very low oil flow pump compared to the 04, which used a kp25. And I know that he has put on a kp31 the last two pumps,
    If he was running the bigger flow pumps on a manifold that had a smaller pump originally , would there be a possibility of the bigger pump not being able to use all the flow and backing up some how
    Is it possible that there is a cartridge that could be leaking off pressure, and that's why he has such low line pressure
    Is there someplace that one could download a schematic for oil flow charts to help understand a trouble shooting process,
     
  5. bliz&hinikerDLR

    bliz&hinikerDLR Senior Member
    Messages: 471

    Blizzard website. Owners manuals will have a hydraulic schematic.
    Possible but not likely on the valve. Only valve would be the float valve.
    The higher cc pump would only give faster function or higher pressure but makes the motor work harder.
     
  6. scottr

    scottr Senior Member
    Messages: 360

    Great Insight to this problem you guy's. Enjoy reading / learning
     
  7. damian

    damian Senior Member
    Messages: 330

    quicker to remove and inspect pump,if pump shaft bores are worn and arced again you have motor ground issue as stated by bliz&heniker. if you think you have a partiallly open valve , jump the motor solenoid to run the pump and see what moves.
     
  8. cl733

    cl733 Senior Member
    from Canada
    Messages: 252


    Seems as though thats exactly what was happening, after reading that i even added a separate power wire and a new ground between the truck and the blade just to be sure
    The guy who was having all the problems with the pumps did the same thing also and has been plowing longer than the pump that had lasted the longest so far , and feels confident that his problems are solved