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pro plus swings fast when angled ?

Discussion in 'Western Plows Discussion' started by ramrod98, Sep 24, 2011.

  1. ramrod98

    ramrod98 Member
    from NEPA
    Messages: 44

    just got my new truck and plow a month ago. also purchased a new estern pro plus 8' plow with it. when i hit the button on the handheld control to angled the plow just swings fast with no control it seems. is this normala for these plows ? my fisher always turned nice and smooth and could asrtop at any angle you wanted. the western goes from straight ahead to the right in less than 1 second it seems, without any smooth movement or control
     
  2. deicepro

    deicepro PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,124

    My new plows turn quick too...I think I read something about a new pump design or something
     
  3. ramrod98

    ramrod98 Member
    from NEPA
    Messages: 44

    not so good when you want it to angle so you have control of it ! This thing just swings really fast ! I'll be afraidd to angled it to a gaarage door or something for fear it will just swing all the way ! I never saw anything like this and I have had plows for many years.
    I aam hoping therte is an adjustment so i can control the speed of the angle
     
  4. mishnick

    mishnick 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,243

    Sorry there is no adjustment for that. Speed is one of the big selling points for Western especially for the V plows. There is a quill adjustment for drop speed but not for angleing. Are you sure all the air is purped out of the system? Sometimes new builds will be jumpy at first until you work the bubbles out and they they settle down. I usually fill them and then run them through all the motions three times checking the level of fluid each time. If this became a real problem I would be getting a couple of the little check valves that come with the Wide-outs. They are a little brass valve that go under the ORB to flare 90 degree fittings on the valve body. They restrict fluid one way and let it flow freely the other way. I would try putting one one each angle hose so the entry oil would be restricted but return would not. This would probably work well and not cost much.
     
  5. ramrod98

    ramrod98 Member
    from NEPA
    Messages: 44

    Thanks for the tip ! I was reading while waiting ffor an answer here and saw that the handheld ccontrol will do this. I see thaat a joystick control will stop the problem more thna likely. a heck of a thing to pull up to a garage door at an angle likoe I haave to sometimes,and not be able to angle the plow to the proper angle without it being out of control. I don't like this setup at all. I guess i will just have to wait until it snows and see what happens and hopefully get used to it somehow. thanks for your answer. I appreciated it !
     
  6. mishnick

    mishnick 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,243

    I don't know how the joystick will affect the speed of the blade? The controller just sends a signal to the valves. The valves either open or close, there is no variation to that regardless of what controller you use. The only difference I know of on the joystick is that the plow goes all the way down and into float when you hit down whereas the handheld won't go into float unless you let the plow all the way down and then hold it for a second. So keep your recipt if you buy a joystick so you can return it when it makes no difference. They aren't cheap $
     
  7. cubicinches

    cubicinches PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,412

    The plow will "coast" a little more with the handheld control, than with the joystick. It's a feature that's intentionally built into the board on the handheld vs. the joystick. I wouldn't call it out of control by any means, but the joystick definitely has more positive control when angling, than the handheld. You do get used to it. A little air still in the system will make the situation worse too.
     
  8. B&B

    B&B PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 12,777

    Sure about that? The joysticks have no soft stop feature to hold the valve open like the handhelds do, thus the blade stops the second you release the controller, unlike a handheld.

    Some like the soft stop feature in the handhelds so that the blade comes to a smooth easy stop and some like the joystick without it since you have more "instant stop" control. Personal preference really.
     
  9. mishnick

    mishnick 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,243

    There is a difference between moving too fast and a gentle stop. His complaint was "swings fast" The soft stop releases the valve gently, it doesn't affect the speed that the oil travels through the valve to the ram.
     
  10. B&B

    B&B PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 12,777

    Thus the normal "complaint" that it can't be controlled predictably and travels much farther than expected, which makes it appear seemingly faster. Common to those not accustom to it. The pumps haven't changed.
     
  11. mishnick

    mishnick 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,243

    As I understand the soft stop can be dissabled on the handheld, at least that's what they told us on the Western course a couple weeks ago. Perhaps that would resolve his issue. Then we could eliminate that as thet problem before he buys the joystick.
     
  12. cubicinches

    cubicinches PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,412

    That's interesting. I don't suppose they told you how, did they?
     
  13. mishnick

    mishnick 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,243

    They didn't but I would be happy to call tech support on Monday and ask. Clearly this would be a great tool to deal with this kind of problem. I will do some research in the dealer login section of the Western website. If I find something today I will post it immediatly, if not stand by Monday and I will tell you what they say at t-sup.
     
  14. Spucel

    Spucel Senior Member
    Messages: 413

    Same problem and I'm subscribing!
     
  15. Tony350

    Tony350 Senior Member
    Messages: 546

    From my understanding with the handheld when you release the angle button it quits sending power to the motor immediately but still sends power to the coil for a second so the plow can continue to swing until it stops on it own. That is why it stops smoothly with the handheld.
     
  16. mishnick

    mishnick 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,243

    That is correct, in effect it causes the valve to close slowely rather than slaming shut. This was intended to to reduce the "intertia" damage caused when the valve slams shut. A good comparison to this is when you are running water in a house with old plumbing. If you turn the tap off fast you can hear banking in the pipes. That's the shock wave created by the water suddently stopping at the valve. New houses have a bit of extra pipe above the highest point in the system with a cap on it designed to hold some air. This air acts as a cusion to prevent the pipes from splitting.
     
  17. Spucel

    Spucel Senior Member
    Messages: 413

    Alright I called Western today and talked to the guy about the plow swinging too much to the left or right. He said they came out with a "revision" on the current handheld, but it looks identical to the one that everyone currently has. He said if you have a new one it will have Fleet written somewhere on the tag thats attached to the handheld. He said they just started rolling them out and he doubts any of the dealers have them yet. The new handheld allows you to put a sequence of buttons in to shut off the soft stop feature.

    I checked my handheld that I got 2 weeks ago and guess what.......I have the old one.

    When I asked him if I could return it for a new model since its brand new he said no that it would have to be worked out with the dealer....the dealer who doesnt have them.
     
  18. mishnick

    mishnick 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,243

    I called tech support today as promised and asked them for the details on disabling the soft stop and I got the same information as Spucel. The statement from the course was true and false. You can disable soft stop on the NEW controllers that they are using on the course but you can't on the old ones. I looked at our inventory today too and none of ours have the Fleet Flex sticker on them. Sorry for getting your hopes up guys. I also tried searching the Western website for anything Fleet Flex but found nothing pertinent.
     
  19. MarkEagleUSA

    MarkEagleUSA Senior Member
    Messages: 321

    I changed to the handheld with the soft stop feature because the joystick caused the plow to slam to a stop. It was so bad the entire truck shook and I figured that couldn't be good for the hydraulics.

    I wish the joystick had the soft stop feature because I'm not really a big fan of the handheld.
     
  20. Tony350

    Tony350 Senior Member
    Messages: 546

    Is there any talk about being able to change the handheld to an instant float like the joystick. That is my biggest complaint about the handheld. I love on the joystick one movement and the plow is on the ground ready to plow.