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Prewetting at the spinner

Discussion in 'Ice Management' started by John_DeereGreen, Nov 1, 2014.

  1. John_DeereGreen

    John_DeereGreen PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,895

    Guys,

    With the current bulk salt pricing being outrageous, and supplies harder to come by if we have an interesting winter, I'm considering adding a prewet system to some of our V boxes.

    What's the general volume range of liquid being sprayed onto the spinner? Using LCC, salt brine, beet juice, or some other concoction? We run all Salt Dogg's, and from what I've found they're using a 30 gallon prewet system on the 1.5/2 yard V boxes. From my math, it's coming out to be about .75 gallons per 100 pounds of salt, but what kind of GPM rate are you spraying onto the spinner?

    I've searched and looked and can't find much on prewetting info other than buying premade systems which I'm not doing.
     
  2. maxwell

    maxwell Member
    from nw ohio
    Messages: 59

    prewetting the spinner

    Hey John deeregreen...I know a lot of the DOT trucks apply liquid calcium at the rate of 6-8 gallons per ton of salt. That rate seems to work pretty well. Most of their systems spray the salt as it falls onto the spinner...that keeps the most of the calcium away from the truck and spreader. That stuff eats through metal faster than salt! Anyway...that's what I know about preweting...hope it helps!
     
  3. Brian Young

    Brian Young PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 3,382

    I have a pre treat system on our 2yd Downeaster. I bought a 35 gal leg tank from TSC, a "salt/chemical proof" small electric pump from a Dultmier catalog, a couple red tip set ups from TSC and some clear 1/2 suction tubing from TSC as well. The tank fit right in front of the v box, I drilled a hole right at the end of the conveyer chain area, installed the nozzle, ran the hose back and walla! I'm not sure of the out put of the pump, I think it's somewhere in the area of 1.5-2 gallons/minute. One thing I know for sure is it treats a slightly heeped 2 ton v box with about 5 gallons left over in the tank. If you need the specific pump #'s I can get them later today.
     
  4. White Gardens

    White Gardens 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,665

    Your nozzle is going to be where your flow really is. Red tip doesn't mean much. Need to look at the GPM's of the nozzle. A red tipped fertilizer nozzle is going to have more output than a red tip fan nozzle.

    We're finally getting a pre-wetting system going this year on our under-tailgate salter.

    I'm figuring application rates is going to vary do to size of lot, speed, etc., just like any spraying application you would do in the summer. Even with the math and calibration, there is still going to be some variables, so I'm looking to do a multi nozzle body to switch on the fly and test out different pre-wetting rates.

    [​IMG]



    .....
     
  5. John_DeereGreen

    John_DeereGreen PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,895

    Brian, pump and nozzle numbers would be great. What liquid are you using?

    Is it in a long bed or short bed? The trucks I want to do this on are short beds with 2 yard spreaders.

    Running the tubing and wiring, mounting the nozzle and tank are easy. I would prefer not to throw a bunch of money away on experiments when I know several guys on here are pretreating.

    White Gardens...I didn't think about a rotary adjustable nozzle head. That would give even more flexibility, when temps are warmer, use less, as it gets colder, or more hard pack, turn it up.
     
  6. White Gardens

    White Gardens 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,665

    That was what I was thinking. The easier and more adjustable, the better the applications.

    That and in our case, when doing a larger lot at faster speeds, we can up the flow with the amount of salt we are spreading.

    In smaller lots, we can drop the flow.

    I'm going with 3 spray fertilizer nozzle that should get me the gpm's that I need for the salt coming out of the sprayer. Pump is an electric, 3.8gpm, 45psi pump. The other option for higher flow rates is a single stream fertilizer nozzle, but I want to avoid that for now. The three stream nozzle should give me the output I need and a little more coverage similar to a fan nozzle. The excess should just hit the spinner and fly.

    There is some flat fan nozzles available, but I didn't like the flow rate.

    Tons of nozzles to choose from, looking at the charts can make your head spin, but really you just need to know your pounds per minute that you are dropping from the spreader, then you can deduce the gpm's you need. Or, at least the range of nozzles you need.

    And with the rotary nozzle head, you can try different nozzles with different spray patterns. Easy to experiment then.

    http://www.teejet.com/english/home/products/spray-products.aspx


    ...........
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2014
  7. John_DeereGreen

    John_DeereGreen PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,895

    Haha, I wish I knew pounds per minute. That would be a lot easier to figure it all. It's so variable that it's hard to nail down a number. Have you ever calculated it out?

    I'm thinking having a .5, a 1, and a 1.5 GPM at whatever PSI would be about right.
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2014
  8. Brian Young

    Brian Young PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 3,382

    The nozzles we're using are just an 80 degree fan spray pattern from TSC Part #(2102361) and the pump is a 12 vovt Sure Flo 1.5 gallon/minute (demand pump type) from Dultmier. Like I said a 35 gallon tank seems to treat a heeped 2 yrd v box about perfectly. Honestly, I wouldn't go crazy with adjustable tips etc. and by pre treating we don't notice a huge savings in salt usage (maybe a little because it starts working faster) because you've already started the break down process but its not like you save a butt load of salt. As far the liquid itself, we just use what we use when we're treating with our liquid applications which is supposed to be 80%brine, 10%Calcium Chloride and 10% Magnesium Chloride....honestly, I have no idea if he's full of it or not but it does work and hasn't froze up or flashed on us yet and seems to work down to around 0 to -5ish. We're switching suppliers this year who swears his stuff is better and a lot cheaper so we'll see.
     
  9. John_DeereGreen

    John_DeereGreen PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,895

    Who are you buying from for this season? You can PM if you don't want to say publicly.
     
  10. White Gardens

    White Gardens 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,665

    All you have to do is just use a bucket underneath the chute, turn it on on whatever setting and then let it go for 10 seconds. Weigh what you have in the bucket, and multiply it by 6. Then do it again on a different setting.

    It doesn't have to be exact like chemical applications, but it would give you the range you need.

    ..
     
  11. John_DeereGreen

    John_DeereGreen PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,895

    Good point, never thought of that. I've never honestly thought about calibrating spreaders like I would fert/chemicals.

    Now I have a project for tomorrow evening.
     
  12. White Gardens

    White Gardens 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,665

    Problem with my old truck was the hydraulic system. At idle it would run slower of course.

    Have gotten the spreader on our new truck and central hydraulics to see if we'll have the same issue.

    .....
     
  13. White Gardens

    White Gardens 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,665

    Calibrating a salt spreader has never been an issue as salt pricing wasn't much of an issue to calibrate.

    I think now with the lack of supply, and the price of salt, it's more important than ever to do calibration checks to pin point the exact amount of salt and brine you are using.


    ...
     
  14. John_DeereGreen

    John_DeereGreen PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,895

    Agreed. Control costs, waste less material, therefore helping the shortage and increase profits...that's a win win.