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Power Reverser Transmissions

Discussion in 'Heavy Equipment' started by NBSnowGuy, Mar 26, 2009.

  1. NBSnowGuy

    NBSnowGuy Member
    Messages: 40

    I just finished my first winter plowing with a 65hp Belarus tractor and a Pronovost p860 regular blower. It worked pretty well, but I'd like to keep the blower and get a tractor that can do more driveways in a hurry next year.

    The power reverser transmissions that some companies offer seem like they would speed things up, but I'm a bit concerned that backing into a driveway and hitting the reverser might not work so well if the tractor takes off in the other direction too fast and leaves a big mess behind. Has anyone got any experience blowing with one of these? how does it work?

    Also, while I'm on the subject of tractor shopping, I was looking at Kubotas, but they seem a bit light for pushing snow. My Belarus is about 11000lbs with the blower and loader and it often lost traction before it was out of power, so I'm thinking there may not be much point to an 85hp Kubota that weighs less?
     
  2. ff1221

    ff1221 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,331

    I have a Massey 5455 with shuttle shift, which I am assuming is the same as a power reverser, and when you lift the power control lever beside the steering wheel, it de-clutches the transmission, and you can stop and blow the little pile away, also it is 16 speed with no clutching, and a 25mph road speed, it has greatly increased my productivity.

    I can't say anything about the Kubotas, because I don't know much about them, but my tractor weighs 11000 lbs, with the loader, and proabaly another 1200 lbs for the blower. check one out you might like it.:drinkup:

    http://www.masseyferguson.com/agco/MF/NA/Tractors/MF5400/5400.htm
     
  3. NBSnowGuy

    NBSnowGuy Member
    Messages: 40

    Thanks for the reply ff1221. I just took a look at the MF website for your tractor and yeah, a shuttle sounds pretty much like a reverser. I will have to give one a try. Have you had any problems with yours?
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2009
  4. leon

    leon Senior Member
    Messages: 872

    tractors etc.

    Another Kubota option that would work well with a blower is the Kubota M8540 tracked orchard tractor.

    It has a wide rubber track, lots of traction contact area, low ground presssure, and extra weight from the track drive, 13 miles per hour travel speed. pressurised all season cabin, takes all the implements etc.

    It is very narrow-6 feet wide I think, 8 feet high at the cab roof top with a very stable platform due to the track drive and very low center of gravity.

    leon
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2009
  5. ff1221

    ff1221 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,331

    No problems with mine, i'm really impressed with how good it works. You can also change gears with the power control lever, and your ranges are change with a lever on the right console, which also changes gears, so shifting of gears can be done from both locations. Try one out, it'll be less confusing than me explaining it, like I said, i think you'll like it.:D
     
  6. magnatrac

    magnatrac PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,055

    I'm curious how the extra weight of the track drive is a benefit if it has a lower ground pressure? Doesn't one cancel the other out? Also the 13mph speed seems slow for a tractor, my skid goes that fast. Just curious how well they would actually work? They look like a good machine for the right application !!!

    , shaun
     
  7. JD Dave

    JD Dave PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 11,046

    Doing residential driveways with a tracked Kubota will be completly senseless. JMO All manufacturers basically have power reversers and if you switch from Belarus they will all seem like a Cadillac. Why would anyone want the increased operating cost of tracks if yo don't need them. Also if you want a heavy tractor try wheel wieghts or loaded tires.
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2009
  8. blowerman

    blowerman PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,262

    I thought the same thing, just figured you could break the news on how useless a tracked (Kubota?) would be clearing snow.
    Why did/ would you suggest a tracked Kubota for snow removal anyhow?
     
  9. leon

    leon Senior Member
    Messages: 872

    snow etc.

    ================================================================

    I simply made the suggestion from knowledge of track drive machinery; If you look at any track drive machinery withh cleats the cleats are what grips and propels the the track in forward or reverse. the huge contact area of the rubber rack with the number of cleats on the bottom of the track are the business end of the drive with the same number of cleats gripping all the time every time at a very low ground pressure.

    It is no different than with the Case IH track drive articulated tractors they have 4 huge ground hugging tracks with rubber cleats to dig in and pull the machine through at a very low ground pressure and with less compaction on any ground. Any tractor with ag tires, R1;R4 tires only has so much surface area touching the ground at any time and an automobile or truck is no different.


    You dealing with the entire surface area of the track drive and cleats versus the very small square inch area of the rubber lugs of a rubber tire. That small area is expected to do all the work of propelling the machine in either direction.

    When you see a diamond turf tread on a tractor it reduces ground pressure and increases traction as each diamond is a gripping surface-lousy in winter without chains but wonderful to use the rest of the year.
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2009
  10. blowerman

    blowerman PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,262

    Honestly a thin cookie cutter tire slicing through the snow and meeting up with the ground is a world better than tracks. Your description works, if the conditions warrant LGP tracks. Mud or areas you don't want to sink in.
     
  11. NBSnowGuy

    NBSnowGuy Member
    Messages: 40

    Thanks for the clarification. When you read the websites or talk to the dealers, all the manufacturers tend to make it sound like they are the only one with the feature.
    The Belarus is actually surprisingly comfortable... except when you have to operate it. Why they ever thought the very front of the cab would be a good place for the hitch and remote controls is beyond me.

    Leon: As far as tracked machines go, they do sound very cool, but I think they are just too specialised for my application. Maybe if a person were to get into clearing power company right of ways in the summer it would make sense to look into something that can take tracks or tires, but that too far off for me.
     
  12. leon

    leon Senior Member
    Messages: 872

    snow etc.

    ===================================================================================================================================================================================================


    Anyway it simply comes down to mechanical advantage, no different than using cleated golf shoes or cleated football sneakers.

    Dozers are ordered with either cleated tracks(grouser-tall cleats) or as a finish dozer(flat-very small cleats) for fine grading with out grouser pads.

    The Oliver Cleatrac farm tractor was one of the first farm tractors with track drive.

    The M8540 comes in a rubber tired version as well. The 8540 was designed as a vineyard and orchard tractor to be narrow to allow it to pass through orchard and vineyard rows and short to work in orchards spraying, mowing, carrying bins of tree fruit and grape totes.

    Adding a weight box will add traction with no effort in any case either for a snowblower or plow.

    As far as the Belarus is designed the controls are up front as most cultivators are still front or mid mounted and they still use implements such as sickle bar mowers to cut hay.

    The design and use of rubber track drive is simply an out growth of a proven method of movement with track drive and with stronger rubber compounds and weaving fibers used to make rubber conveyor belts, manufactures are able to design and mold better rubber tracks.
     
  13. blowerman

    blowerman PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,262


    Most dozers are either standard tracks or LGP. While other options exist, you will find very few in use. (except maybe the Cat XW, which is a extra wide standard track.
    The cleat part is not taller or smaller.
    You keep describing the advantages of this machine and they all pertain to summer or dirt work.
    Please give me a reason why it would work well in winter on a driveway?
     
  14. jomama45

    jomama45 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,172

    Chris, I take it you've run your dozer & excavator in winter, or worse yet, tried to load them on your trailer? An excavator friend slid his ex. off a dek over 15 years ago in winter, sold the trailer, & replaced it with semi-tractor/lowboy within a month! I haven't (nor has he) been been real impressed with rubber tracks on ice, snow, or frozen ground. I don't understand how lower ground pressure could ever add more traction on a hard, wet (at best) surface.
     
  15. blowerman

    blowerman PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,262

    Thanks for backing me up... Yes, I've tried loading in winter. We salt everything to death and add sand but the machines will still slip. It will almost make you stool yourself. They just don't work in winter. Rubber isn't that far behind the metal tracks.
     
  16. zabMasonry

    zabMasonry Senior Member
    from vt
    Messages: 100

    I believe that "power reverser" is JD's name for it. My question, why not a straight up Hydrostatic transmission?
     
  17. JD Dave

    JD Dave PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 11,046

    Generally hydrostatic transmissions cost more and have slow road speeds and they also rob horse power. Unless your looking at a TV bidirectional tractor I'd stay away from hydrostatic becase they mainly come in compact tractors and compacts are over priced horse power for blowing snow. Power reverser or left hand reverser is the term most people use around here but what do I know, maybe you have a better name for it.
     
  18. ff1221

    ff1221 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,331

    50 to 60 hp is usually the max for a Hydro, and like JD said the road speeds are very slow. I had a 47hp hydro up until Christmas, then I bought my new tractor because my compact was slow, 17mph compared to 25mph and the lack of horsepower, I was killing the little tractor trying to blow snow. It takes a lot of horsepower to blow snow, even at 85 pto hp, I can still bog it down easy enough, that's why the big Vohl blowers come with a separate 350hp power unit just to run the blower. Unless you only get a maximum 3" every time it snows, stay away from a compact, and surprisingly enough, my big tractor burns the same amount of fuel as my compact did at twice the horsepower.