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POS Toro 3650 Single Stage Durajunk Engine

Discussion in 'Commercial Snow Removal' started by asnowsquall, Dec 16, 2003.

  1. asnowsquall

    asnowsquall Junior Member
    from VT
    Messages: 23

    Last April I stopped by Home Depot and saw a Toro 3650 that was Reconditioned and puchased it for $371 with tax. Sales guy said it possible someone didn't care for it and just brought it back, then H.D. sends it out to a small engine shop were they check it out so that the TORO 2 year warranty can be honored to whoever buys it, in this case me. I'm thinking cool, simple 2 stroke, can't be anything wrong with it, + it's a TORO! Got to use it one time in April I believe and in conked out on me, hmmm, strange. This year two good sized snowstorms and I can't believe how nice it is when it first start up, nice unit. Then after about 5 minutes or so, it starts acting up. At idle it's searching, almost like the mixture isn't right. Under load, is starts loosing power, die's all together, or one time it screamed, one time it was way low. It's not the governor, I tried taking control of the governor with my finger it it won't rev or do anything basically. Weird one. By the way, the carb is black plastic! Yuck! If you let it sit for a while it seems to be OK again. H.D. says they can send it out for repair, but I won't see it for a while. They said better off checking out the local TORO dealer. Looks like a chance to save some $$ is going to turn out frustrating. Ready for a HONDA after seeing the plastic carb. I'm 40years old and it doesn't seem to bad to through in and out of my truck,and I really like this thing when it's running right, + I like being able to control the chute without reaching around for it. Anybody else have this experience? Do I have a lemon? The tech at H.D. said they just sold a new won and it came back for the same problem I'm describing.:angry:
     
  2. TLS

    TLS PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,425

    This just further proves my theory of staying away from ANY equipment that HD sells. Even if it's available at a Commercial dealership. If HD carries it, it's almost always designed to sell at a HD (ie cheaper).

    What mixture are you running?

    Good Gas?

    Did you break it in yet?
     
  3. asnowsquall

    asnowsquall Junior Member
    from VT
    Messages: 23

    Fresh gas, 50:1 with TORO oil. Break In??
     
  4. TLS

    TLS PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,425

    Break In = Running it for an extended period of time at various RPM's. All engines benefit from it, some more than others.

    Does your engine seem to be starving for gas or is spark jumping in and out? I would assume the air filter is OK. THey are the three causes, now you need to determine which it is.

    How about a fuel filter? Does it have an in tank pickup filter, or an in-line filter?

    Dirt in carb?


    WAIT a minute..... it's under warranty, RIGHT?


    I'd take it back to HD and ask for either your money back or a new model. Ask to speak to a manager. As long as you have your reciept, you'll be OK.
     
  5. calhoun

    calhoun Senior Member
    Messages: 165

    Just a thought. Check the gas cap. They ship these with a plastic seal to prevent any thing from getting into the tank. If this was not removed there will be no air vent into the tank. It will act as you discribe runs good but than cant get gas. Let it sit it will run good for a while more.
     
  6. asnowsquall

    asnowsquall Junior Member
    from VT
    Messages: 23

    First, Thanks for your input guys, it really helps get the creative thought process going

    TLS- There is no throttle control at all, its self governing, so really no break in unless you just try and stay out of deep snow to "baby it" I don't think its a break in issue.

    Checked the gas cap and it looks normal.
    As with most snowblowers it has no air filter.

    It is under warranty, but 2 things I'm nervous about some ying yang making it worse than it is, and the guy at home depot is warning me that it may take a while and he is aiming me to the local TORO dealership which is so busy right now that when you call you get an answering machine! I understand them being busy, but they do have one heck of a reputation (197 in Essex Jct, VT) I called another dealer and they said most likely the float needs to be set up, its running rich which is OK when the motor is cold, but it doesn't like it when hot. This may be possible.

    May be time to fix it, and Ebay it. Then get a new Honda.
    Plastic carb, man....
    Wonder if it has a plastic piston....
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2003
  7. Toby

    Toby Senior Member
    from NY
    Messages: 132

    Duraforce engines are one of the most reliable 2 strokes I have ever used, surpassed only perhaps by the indestructible Suzukis.

    I run about 15 Duraforce on Lawnboy mowers & Toro blowers, many from their original debut 5 years ago & have yet to have a single problem w/ the engine.
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2003
  8. asnowsquall

    asnowsquall Junior Member
    from VT
    Messages: 23

    I hope I didn't piss anyone of who is a Duraforce fan. I wish I could change the subject line now. I was having a frustrating moment. I'll get over it and make it work as I always do. Every manufacturing company has a percentage of defects. I have to remember that it is because of this defect that I was able to purchase a $600+ snowblower for $371 with a 2 year factory warranty. This is going to sound weird to some, but I wish I knew the float level as I would check it myself. It's not hard to get to and wouldn't take long. With all the snow we've recieved the local dealer is swamped. I take my hat off to you guys that do this stuff for a living. I'm just dabbling in it as I work for corporate america still. Won't get into that subject....
    I'll let you guys know what I find, you never know, someone else may stumble into the same thing as I did.
     
  9. JThompson

    JThompson Member
    from NYC
    Messages: 71

    Doesn't exactly sound like it but you could have water in the carb. On those machines Toro puts a metal "cup" by the carb that is supposed to catch any gas that may leak onto the ground when it is primed. If the machine was dragged backwards through the snow or snow got in there it is possible it got into the carb. My dealer recommends turning the cup upside down (yes, you may spill a few drops of gas on the ground- be prepared to call hazardous materials :eek: ) . I'd check the bowl of the carb for water.
     
  10. asnowsquall

    asnowsquall Junior Member
    from VT
    Messages: 23

    You must be talking about the piece that bolts onto the carb where an air cleaner normally would be bolted on? Interesting idea.
    A person at another site like this one said that TORO had problems with some carbs and there is a recall. I'm going to take it to the dealer tomorrow to see what they say.
     
  11. JThompson

    JThompson Member
    from NYC
    Messages: 71

    Could you let me know about the recall? Thanks.
     
  12. plowman777

    plowman777 Senior Member
    Messages: 227

    i just used my 3650 for the first time last week and it was great!..self governing works fine too, HD deals in seconds
     
  13. asnowsquall

    asnowsquall Junior Member
    from VT
    Messages: 23

    I think I figured it out with some help. Notice the gap around the choke lever, well it's pretty good size. When I was using the blower it was very cold, windy, the snow like powder, and it was deep enough that sometimes I was tunneling. I think the machine was sucking in a little snow and the carb was icing up. You can purchase a piece of rubber with a slit in it to slide over the lever and fill that gap so no snow can get in.

    It rained most of the day here, and changed over to wet snow tonight. I figured it would be a good time to test the theory as the is no light snow. It ran perfect. In fact it handles the wet snow beautifully!! Going to find some rubber and take care of the gap! I'' post a picture and let you know if that solves the problem. BTW the new 2004's come with the rubber piece from what I'm told. :D
     
  14. asnowsquall

    asnowsquall Junior Member
    from VT
    Messages: 23

    You can see the part on the 2004's by launching TORO's part viewer https://lookup2.toro.com/partdex/index.cfm?xCaller=Toro
    1)entering the model number 38518
    2)Choose View Assembly Drawings for the 2004
    3)click on "engine and frame assembly".
    4)See #34, thats the guard!

    repeat and choose 2002 at step 2 and you can see it isn't there.

    What gets me is that the people at my dealership are telling me to put dry gas in it. Thanks to the Internet and friendly people we can share the correct information.
     
  15. ebaron

    ebaron Senior Member
    Messages: 110

    Nothing like knowing what you are selling and servicing it. Keep your local dealer in mind next time you buy.
     
  16. asnowsquall

    asnowsquall Junior Member
    from VT
    Messages: 23

    This is how mine looks right now. I stopped by my local dealer and they are out of the rubber part which is $2.03. The manager wasn't there to talk to about if it was a recall. I think I'll just make one myself. This is the problem for sure. Last night wet snow, no problem. Today in Underhill I blew powder, got some in my face and it killed the motor. Choke it and it starts up. You can see where powdered snow got stuck to the plastic on the back panel.
    My neighbor with the 8 HP Troy Bilt 2-stage was impressed when I was running circles around him with the 3650. Its was a very impressive performance in today's 7-8" of wet snow. Going to be an excellent maching when I get the slot plugged up.
    Dave

    choke1.jpg
     
  17. asnowsquall

    asnowsquall Junior Member
    from VT
    Messages: 23

    Well I purchased a piece of rubber, and cut it to the 2 3/4"x5" piece and installed it. Really easy to do and now that's out of the picture but I ran it tonight and it quit on me again about 3-4 times. I have to put the choke on and a shot of primer to get it to start back up. I'm starting to think the mixture isn't rich enough for the real cold temps. It ran great last night, but it was warmer out. If I put the choke at mid position it runs better. When it's running and I'm not blowing any snow, and it's warmed up it doesnt stay at a steady RPM. It rev's back and forth like the governor is trying to keep it running because the mixture is off a little. In the half choke position it does it but you can hardly notice it. May go out and look for an adjustment screw to see if it has one. I've included pictures of my work, it took about 10 minutes to do. The rubber I used is 1/16" thick, and TORO red so you guys can see it. :)

    slot fix.jpg
     
  18. PROPJCKEY

    PROPJCKEY Senior Member
    Messages: 125

    I've never used this machine before, however, i can tell you after years of fixin' motorcycles for fun i had the same problem once. turned out to be an ignigtion coil problem, bike would run for 5 minutes, quit....choke the **** out of it and do it all over...does it have one?
    -Jeff-
     
  19. ok, now i race jet ski's and i tune my own motor (an 1100 suzuki) so I'm pretty handy with tuning 2 strokes. I can't believe that this thing has a plastic carb??!! If my ski was giving me these kind of problems, i would rebuild the carbs. Sometimes the jets can become blocked. Also, what did the spark plug look like? Does it look like it's running lean or rich? There also can be an air leak somewhere causing a lean mixture. If it's one or the other, adjust the mixture screws as necessary. Two strokes are the easiest things ever to work on.
     
  20. asnowsquall

    asnowsquall Junior Member
    from VT
    Messages: 23

    Here are some pictures of the plastic carb. Notice the red arrow pointing to where it had a sticker on it with numbers over the jet. weird...
    Haven't popped the bowl off yet. Included the measurements, 3/4" dia., and 1 11/16" width for mount holes. A picture of a carb off of a suzuki motor or other ccr's would be cool. Wouldn't mind finding a metal carb with adjustments on it. Does the owners manual say anything about running it with the choke at the half position in cold weather, I have no manual. I have full resolution pictures if anyone is interested.

    No mixture screws which is really wacked, how do they know where this thing is going? It could be high in the mountains as altitude effects tuning. I may just dump it and buy a honda so I don't have to deal with this bad/cheap design. Sorry, but TORO messed up here. Could be the temperatue and altitude that I'm at and I just can adjust the carb. The technician at Home Depot
    said that someone just puchased one brand new and had the same complaint I did. Anyone else from Vermont having these problems with this model. I think the 2450 has the same carb.

    plastic carb2.jpg