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Plow's acting weird

Discussion in 'Boss Plows Discussion' started by oneoldsap, Dec 30, 2011.

  1. oneoldsap

    oneoldsap Senior Member
    Messages: 188

    Well we finally got to do some p;owing in my neck of the woods . I serviced my 8' RT-2 a coulpe of weeks ago and everything was working fine . First it didn't want to hook up , sounded like the pump was deadheading I dubbed around with it and got it hooked up . Blew a hose on my second push , had a spare , put it on refilled the oil . Now everything is working slow and drawing alot of current . When I lift the plow , it starts up at regular speed , then about half way up it slows down and the pump starts laboring and draws real hard . I load tested my batteries and they were fine . I was watching my amp gauge and it was down to about ten volts , after about 5 driveways , I thought maybe the alternator was dying , but without the plow working it was fine , but the plow was actually running the battteries down , with the truck running . I run two 1000 Amp batteries . It might be time to upgrade my alt. but the plow just ain't working right ! I thought I'd pick some brains before I have to take it to the dealer .
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2011
  2. B&B

    B&B PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 12,777

    Go over all the cable connections with a fine tooth comb first and once they're deemed perfect have the amp draw checked on the motor. If it's over about 240 amp against the relief it's time to take a look at the motor.
     
  3. oneoldsap

    oneoldsap Senior Member
    Messages: 188

    I'll give that a shot . Thank you sir !
     
  4. timberjack

    timberjack Member
    Messages: 96

    Just gonna piggy back on this thread, rather than starting another for now, as my problem is kind of similar to oneoldsap's, perhaps it'll help his repair as well.

    B&B, is the pump portion of the unit easily dismantled for inspection without too much trouble? Or is it basically a unit that is assembled and non serviceable. I had taken off the round plate while inspecting the pickup/return screens, but didn't go any further. Appears i may have to shortly.

    My motor is also drawing a lot of current. I haven't done an amp draw test yet, will do that in the morning. A pressure test will have to wait until i can get some fittings to work a gauge into the circuit, next week when i can got to a hydraulic shop.

    Let me describe my problem. Plow is now into it's 3rd season, first outing this year. Slow moving hydraulics, was always slow, but much more so this season. It'll take 7-10 seconds to move to scoop from v. About 4-5 seconds to lift the plow to maximum height, and sometimes won't lift the full height when i double tap the up button, used to do it fine, though as i say, this unit was always kind of slow from day one. It has recently developed a, for want of a better phrase, dull, quiet "screeching", when lifting the blade, not so much on the wing functions. Which is what has me thinking there is a pump problem.

    I had changed the fluid last month, using Aeroshell Fluid 41, same oil i've used since it was new, and oil has always been still quite red when changing. I decided to pull the pump/motor assembly so i could take the tank off today, and see if anything was amiss. The pick up and return screens were about as clean as could be. I did discover, and take out the orifice discs from behind the wing valves today, but all it sped up was the wing retraction. If anything, i'll probably put the discs back in, perhaps opening up the orifice slightly more before i do.

    I inspected each and every wire, and connection. All appeared excellent, and tight. I did a load test on the batteries, and they were fine. I reapplied fresh dielectric grease to all the connections from the battery right down to the valve solenoids. I had sprayed down the under-shroud area with fluid film when i did the install on the truck, and seasonally as well. Frankly, other than the leftover film, could be wiped down and would look like brand new. There isn't a hint of corrosion anywhere.

    I filled it with new oil again, and after raising/lowering the blade 8-10 times, and extending and retracting the wings about the same, i touched the motor. It wasn't scalding, but it was hot to the touch, enough that, perhaps 1-2 seconds was all i could leave my bare hand on it. I've also tried hooking a set of booster cables from the battery, directly to the appropriate leads on the pump motor for a cycle. Other than having the motor run at all times, it didn't help the speed of the functions.

    Going to have another look at it tomorrow, with an amp test before i pull the unit back out, drain it, and strip it down again. Is there a way to tell if the pump is kaput on the bench? Should the input shaft (if that's what is in there) be easy to turn by hand, or have a fair bit of resistance?

    I imagine the best value is a whole replacement unit, pump and motor assembly?

    It figures, my warranty was up about six weeks ago. lol
     
  5. B&B

    B&B PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 12,777

    Since you've done your homework on everything (kudos to you BTW) most likely the motor is your whole issue. I've been seeing more and more 08-09 model year plows with motor problems and most operators state they were never fast from day one (like a Boss usually is) and it always requires a fresh motor to fix them. It's extremely rare to have an actual gear pump problem. If there's a problem it's always the motor. Whether you only replace the motor or go ahead and change the entire power unit is up to you as you can go either way. A fresh motor runs around $240 and a complete new hydro unit is about twice that. Also replace the underhood solenoid too because you've been running it for a while with the motor pulling excessive current.

    The squeal is more than likely just the lift ram. They'll do that when the system is running slow. The seals "chatter" on the chrome rod (slip and stick phenomenon) when there's a load on the ram while moving slower than normal. So once it's back to normal running speed you'll probably find the noise also disappears.


    It's personal preference but I'd leave the orifice discs out. If the wing springs are adjusted correctly (and I'm not referring to as per Boss recommendations either) the wings don't need restrictors to slow them down.
     
  6. grandview

    grandview PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 14,609

    I think my 08 Boss v plow is faster then my 02 one. The 02 was never that fast and even with a new motor last year it still moves the same as before.
     
  7. timberjack

    timberjack Member
    Messages: 96

    Thanks for the new years eve help B&B.

    Well, i'll order a new motor, and solenoid at the least. I note, from the diagram at one online store, the motor is a different design. But then i ran across a powerpoint presentation showing the same image as a revision in the past year for the newest models. ESI's site calls it an ISKRA model. Guess Boss also put 2 + 2 together on the Haldex motors if there were plenty of other failures, and sourced a new manufacturer.
    www.ironforgetrailers.com/documents/BOSS2011.ppt

    I knew Boss had the reputation that they had fast hydraulics. One of my neighbors asked me how i liked that very aspect once i got mine. I had sold them my previous truck, equipped with a Western Ultramount unit when i bought this plow. I told him my old western was easily much faster, and he didn't believe me. Guess i should have looked into it more back then.

    Thanks, and Happy New Year.
    Ken
     
  8. B&B

    B&B PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 12,777

    If your plow is only three years old it should already have an Iskra double stud motor on it, although it isn't the same thing that was used in limited quantities recently which promises even better performance.
     
  9. timberjack

    timberjack Member
    Messages: 96

    Ah, yes, i only noted the tag on the motor, and thought it was made by Haldex. A look at the picture i took of it on the bench shows that it more likely refers to the complete unit.

    Anyway, it is indeed a double stud motor, though does not have the short jumper from the negative post to the motor case, which the new one i ordered looks like it will have.

    While i'm thinking of it, how is it fastened to the pump portion? From the pump side i'd guess right now. Though i suppose i'll likely be able to deduce that once the new one arrives.
     
  10. B&B

    B&B PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 12,777

    There's only the two long through bolts that hold the motor to the manifold. Nothing holds it to the gear pump shaft, just a male/female connection on the shafts.
     
  11. oneoldsap

    oneoldsap Senior Member
    Messages: 188

    Working Now

    I ran the draw test on the motor , against the relief valve and it was about 220 Amps . I really think it's those plugs on the power cables that are the cause of my problems . I brushed the snot out of them , gave the females a little squeeze and greased them up . She's working good now , of course they always do when there's no snow to plow . Thanks for your advice B&B . I owe ya one ! ussmileyflag
     
  12. jklawn&Plow

    jklawn&Plow Senior Member
    Messages: 469

    What is optimal, more than 32 mil spacing?
     
  13. B&B

    B&B PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 12,777

    The wings require very little spring tension to retract assuming the hinge is properly greased as it should be, and you're not running the orifice discs so the springs need virtually zero pre-tension, and this is how I set them up.

    If there's any gap in the coils at all they're tighter than needed to do their job and/or you're not keeping the center hinge properly lubricated, thus you're using the springs to compensate for a dry hinge. Plain and simple- the less tension the longer they will last. And if you're breaking wing springs fairly often you're running them too tight. If you grab the spring with just your index finger and thumb and can't roll it back and forth slightly with just finger pressure it's too tight. It's also important to add a dab of your favorite lubricant to each spring end. This helps prevent the eyebolt and center section from sawing into the spring hooks thus creating a stress riser and eventually a fracture. Make sure you run a backup nut on the eye bolt on the spring side of the bracket as well. This keeps the eyebolt tight and helps to prevent tearing the eyebolt bracket open on the wing on the older plows with the thin steel bracket.

    Been doing it this way for years and I seldom get a plow in with a broken spring.
     
  14. jklawn&Plow

    jklawn&Plow Senior Member
    Messages: 469

    Thanks, I'm going to loosen them up in the morning. Now that I adjusted the bump stop so the plow sits level it does come back a lot easier out of scoop. Although now plow is sitting a little lower (the bottom post that hooks to truck went from 13" to 11.5") I will be setting on some 2x4 's.(don't want to lower truck or pushframe)
     
  15. Spool it up

    Spool it up Senior Member
    Messages: 912


    never thought of that . especially on a simple return spring .thanks bro