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Plowing with a tractor

Discussion in 'Commercial Snow Removal' started by sven1277, Sep 5, 2008.

  1. sven1277

    sven1277 Senior Member
    Messages: 480

    I have a Kubota b7610 w/cab heat and a 60" power angle blade. It has been underutilized the past couple of seasons. I am going to use it at a condo assoc. that consists of 16 driveways. Two questions. First, I need weight in the rear for extra traction. For whatever reason, wheel weights are not made for r4 , only the ag tires. Is loading the tires with calcium giving the exact same result? It seems because the liquid isn't bolted and just sloshing around that it would be fine as counter weight, but not as much traction. Additionally, I might be using the 3point for a pendulum spreader, depending on the storm.
    Second, the 60" blade is good for the drives, but there is a 48" wide walkway that runs up around the cul-de-sac back down to the main road. I would like to be able to do this job with just the tractor.
     
  2. adino1954

    adino1954 Junior Member
    from ct
    Messages: 13

    Calcium will rot your rims in years to come.Where i work at G and H equip ( North Haven CT ) we load tires with ballast-star its a citris based liquid that is not as corrosive as calcium. It is $3.00 per gallon loaded into your tires.any questions call 203-239-3376
     
  3. sven1277

    sven1277 Senior Member
    Messages: 480

    I think my dealer uses something derived from beet juice.
     
  4. JD Dave

    JD Dave PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 11,045

    We still use calcium in ours and rusting hasn't been a problem but I'd be interested in trying the beat juice out. Loaded tires do help for traction BTW Our telehandler has all 4 tires loaded.
     
  5. keitha

    keitha Senior Member
    Messages: 133

    Weight

    Loaded tires act both as weight for traction and counter balance, think of a
    1000lbs on a foot print of 1 sq foot vs 500 lbs.wesport
    What about a 3pt weight box that you can swap out with the spreader?
    A 3pt blade also would add weight and versatlity.
    Going to be tough doing that walk, but what's a little turf repair in the spring.
    Loading the tires on a smaller tractor may not add as much weight to horse power as an
    ag tractor, but every little bit helps.
    You might also want to consider chains for the rears. May only need
    them on a rare occasion but when you need them you'll be glad to have them.
    Lastly, get a set of ag tires on rims for winter use and weight them out.
     
  6. Neige

    Neige Sponsor
    Messages: 2,197

    We have been using calcium for many years now, never had a rim rot out. Sometimes I ve had to replace the valves. If there is other stuff available go for it.
    The extra weight will help. What I strongly suggest is get a 3 or 4 foot snowblower on your 3 point. Now your set to do your walkways, and if there is some big snow drifts on your drives it will go faster than with a plow. Or windrow your drives to once side and then blow it away. Its extra insurance to have both, if one should break, you can always finish with the other.
     
  7. sven1277

    sven1277 Senior Member
    Messages: 480

    That's a great idea as far as having both options available
     
  8. LoneCowboy

    LoneCowboy PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,760

    Get your tires loaded (with whatever)
    It's cheap, it's easy, it's SO much better you won't believe it.
    Loading your tires will give you a LOT more weight than wheel weights and it's all lower to the ground.

    If you really want to go all out (and have the money)
    Get the tires foamed. Takes about 3 days, it's big money, but you will never have another flat, you just get the tires recapped when the tread wears out (so no loss on the foam) and you'll get the weight.

    put a BIG bucket on. snow isn't heavy (like sand or gravel) so you can move a LOT more snow than running out of weight.
     
  9. elite1msmith

    elite1msmith 2000 Club Member
    from chicago
    Messages: 2,762

    what about using anti freeze? anyone think of that? it shouldnt be harful to a rim , or a rubber tire'

    and correct me if im wrong , but filling them with liquid is only a traction solver... it does NOt act as a counterweight , unless your rear axle is already in the air
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2008
  10. LoneCowboy

    LoneCowboy PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,760

    why wouldn't it?
    1200lbs in two tires way down low in the back?
    clearly counterweight.
    My rear tires are filled on my TC45, I can have nothing on the 3 point, have the big bucket on (2/3 of a yard) and fill it heaping full with sand and wander off, no problem. (that's about 1600lbs in the bucket)

    Yeah, it's a counterweight.
     
  11. elite1msmith

    elite1msmith 2000 Club Member
    from chicago
    Messages: 2,762

    no heres y its not counter weight.... assuming all for tires are on the ground equally, with equal pressure , the center of gravity would be in the middle of your tractor. in order to move the center of gravity rearward, the weight has to be -BEHIND the rear axle... true some fo the fluid would be behind it, but some is also in front of it... the two would conter each other. it will take just a little weight off the front , but not alot. Counter weight needs to be placed behind the axle... any weight that is in front of it will be divided between the two axles... which means it wil be adding weight to the front as well as the rear

    you need to think about it like a lever or at the play ground , with a teetor taughter, .... if a kid sits on one side, you need to add another kid to the other side... by placing a fat man (ie Fluid) other the fulcum point(center or axle) it has no effect, since hes in the very middle of it, if he moves reward then he has an effect


    what it will do , is keep the rear axle on the ground... it will keep it from lifting , but it will not releive weight that is on the front axle.... so if your lifting heavy objects that are going to put you over the FAWR , your liquid filled tries dont releive stress on that axle.

    same thing goes for your pick truck. balast... yes putting weight in the back helps for tracton, however if you want to keep excessive weight off your front axle ...to counter the weight of the plow .... then you must counter weight it, and place the weigh AFT of the rear axle, or else you will just be adding more weight to the front and rear
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2008
  12. Neige

    Neige Sponsor
    Messages: 2,197


    I disagree, most AG tractors the tires are much larger in the back then the front. My back tires hold a ton each. Definitely works as a counter weight.
     
  13. elite1msmith

    elite1msmith 2000 Club Member
    from chicago
    Messages: 2,762

    well , ok lets simplfiy this.... or rather redefine it...

    if your talking about counter weight as in keeping the rear tires on the ground, with that being there sole purpose, plus tration - then yes your correct it does do that

    if your talking about adding traction , keeping the rear wheels on the ground, AND Removing weight from the front axle, and placing it on the rear,... THEN NO, or VERY VERY LITTLE
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2008
  14. LoneCowboy

    LoneCowboy PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,760

    dfh edyfg dfg
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2008
  15. elite1msmith

    elite1msmith 2000 Club Member
    from chicago
    Messages: 2,762

    lol, been drinking much?
     
  16. JD Dave

    JD Dave PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 11,045

    Yes you have been, put a loader on a farm tractor and it's dangerous not to have your rear tires loaded. Not quite sure why your arguing about common knowledge, about using counter weight. We run wheel weights on most of our tractors because we don't want to deal with calcium when we get flats. Foam filled tires are great for a yard tractor but I wouldn't want to run one down the road.
     
  17. bribrius

    bribrius PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,609

    he is arguing the same point everyone argues about ballast or counterweight in a pickup behind the rear wheels to off set the plow.\\\\

    same principal. different machine
     
  18. elite1msmith

    elite1msmith 2000 Club Member
    from chicago
    Messages: 2,762

    im not aguing, we seem to have a different meaning of the term counter weight.... i veiw it just like blast on a truck... it has to be behind the rear axle in order to take weight off the front axle....

    other wise the only thing it does is keep the rear on the ground....

    if you place the weight anywere forward of the the rear axle, it will add more weight to the front and rear... thus it dosnt counter anything... it keeps the front on the ground..

    your loader becomes dangerous when the center of gravity is forward of the front axle.... causing it to tip forward... loading your tires.. keeps the center of gravity rear of the axle making it more stable... however now the front axle is holeing the entire weight of your bucket load... and some of the loaded tires... a good percentage of the machines entire weight , plus weight or your loaded tires, and bucket. ....is transfered to the frount axle...

    if you really want i can teach a math class too...lol its not hard to figure out....

    those of you that are "ballasting" your trucks,,,, trying to remove weight from your front axle.... becasue your a few hundred over the FAWR... the only way to do it ... is to put the wieght behind the rear axle , be the tailgate

    if you are puttin git by the cab of the truck because you need room for your snow blower, your acctually making the problem worst.. and increasing the weight valve.... - granted you are accoplishing adding over all more weight to the truck/machine = more traction


    with a true counter weight, and the weight behind the rear axle, when you pick up a load with the bucket, it is even more stable, and less weight is on the rear axle instead of the front
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2008
  19. JD Dave

    JD Dave PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 11,045

    The rear axle on a tractor, is at the very rear, so the weight transfer is alot..
     
  20. elite1msmith

    elite1msmith 2000 Club Member
    from chicago
    Messages: 2,762

    nope... still not correct...


    Yes it keeps the rear tires on the ground... yes it does (counter) the weigh of the material in your bucket... however all the weight in your bucket, plus a good portion of the tractors weight , including your loaded tires now rests on the Front axle, with minimal on the rear

    in other words, yes you added weigh to the rear of your tractor, but failed to take any off the front
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2008