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Plow size-- Legal Questions???

Discussion in 'Commercial Snow Removal' started by Bolts Indus., Nov 9, 2004.

  1. Bolts Indus.

    Bolts Indus. PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,176

    I have started this thread because I am concerned with the posts that say put a bigger plow on your vehicle than your dealer is recommending. I caution you if you do this and exceed the weight and have a accident and it is proven that the blade was to heavy causing the accident by exceeding braking capacity or control have your lawyer on standby. Come on guys/girls stop the macho I got a big plow stuff and put the right and legal plow on. Save your a## in the future.

    PS: If your insurance can prove you were told otherwise, they will bail quicker than the crew of the Titanic.
  2. cja1987

    cja1987 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,407

    Very good advice for sure. About the macho "i have a big plow stuff", if you are referring to me, ive got another 100 LBS left if i wanted so iam all set there. If you are not referring to me forget i said it :rolleyes:Personally, i would not recommend someone else to go overweight. Axle are a *little* under rated to begin with anyways. Personally, iam one to go out on a limb. For the time i plow vs the rest of the driving time, iam willing to compromise for the short time the plow is mounted. Don't get me wrong, i did not try to put a 700 LB plow on my cherokee, iam reasonalble about it.
  3. Bolts Indus.

    Bolts Indus. PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,176

    I was referring to no one in particular, just trying to offer some good advice and help. No offence taken.
  4. cja1987

    cja1987 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,407

    I agree, it is great advice, especailly the accident/ insurence part.
  5. 84deisel

    84deisel Senior Member
    Messages: 696

    I always go by the front Axel rating as it will most certainly be inline with dealer recommendations
  6. Bolts Indus.

    Bolts Indus. PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,176

    It is not just a question of axle weight but braking capacity/control as well. The lawyers can make a purse out of a sows ear.
  7. 84deisel

    84deisel Senior Member
    Messages: 696

    usually the factory Axel ratings take in braking and steering capabilities also. I whole hardly agree that a plow should not by any means over tax braking,steering or suspension as any one of these could result in a catastrophic or fatal incident (NOT ACCIDENT).
  8. spacolee

    spacolee Member
    from canada
    Messages: 58

    Bolts when I bought my 810 it weights allot so is m PSD 350 to heavy on the axles also did you get my E mail
  9. Bolts Indus.

    Bolts Indus. PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,176


    The requierments for a Blizzard 810 are a minimum of 3/4 ton. No, I am sorry I did not get your e-mail. Try again.
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2004
  10. Dwan

    Dwan Senior Member
    Messages: 879

    Come on you guys, realy how many of you have axualy put your front axle on a scale after installing a plow and added weight to the back, then with a full fuel tank and you in the driver seat?

    I havent yet and own a set we use to set up suspention on our cars. also run scales most every day with the big rig.
    I agree not to overload but how maney of us realy know what we realy weigh?

  11. Bolts Indus.

    Bolts Indus. PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,176

    We can split hairs all we wan't. It don't matter till some thing happens.
  12. corkireland

    corkireland Senior Member
    Messages: 129

    "Its doesn't matter where he grips it, its a matter of weight ratios. A five ounce bird can not carry a one pound cocunut, am I right?" This was so reminding me of this great quote! Sorry but I agree great advice! :salute:
  13. Mick

    Mick PlowSite.com Veteran
    from Maine
    Messages: 5,546

    I ran both the 1500 and 3500 over the junk yard scales, just like you described. I've still got the Front, Rear and Total weights around here somewhere. I even went so far as to have the dealer look into the computer for the registered weight of the 3500, cause it wasn't in the door panel (12,026#).
  14. Duplantisjj

    Duplantisjj Senior Member
    Messages: 111

    I agree with comments about being careful and not going too big.

    By some mix up at the dealer I ended up with a Super Duty version of a Poly Plow. Sounds good, but it is a heavier plow. Right off the bat, Chevy recommends NOT putting a plow on my truck. :nono: But I did anyway

    Now I'm looking at roughly 700lbs of plow weight plus 400lb of sand ballast. In my mind, a 1500 truck should be able to handle 1500lbs. But.....it's a half ton... which is only 1000lbs....hmmmm....but payload on my truck is 1750lbs according to my owners manual...hmmmm

    Anyway.....The biggest diference that I noticed while carrying the plow are that my stopping distances have GREATLY increased on the ice. I have never heard so many anti-lock brake noises until after I installed the plow. :eek: :help: And then there's those bug-eyed looks from the people with fancy cars with a big red plow sliding towards them. :eek:

    Everything else (plenty of power, ride quality, etc) seems normal.
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2004
  15. iowaegian

    iowaegian Junior Member
    from 1
    Messages: 26

    Was that an African or European Swallow carrying the coconuts?
  16. Dwan

    Dwan Senior Member
    Messages: 879

    Last I seen they were gathering with the ants and moving into a rubber tree foundation.

    Mick you ofcorse are one of the few that take this plowing thing and run it like a real business. I weigh my trucks on the average of 3 times a week for one reason or another but have never taken the time to install the blade and just go weigh the front axle. Looks like a good job for this afternoon.

    They like to play mind games. door tag should tell you what your front axle is rated for. and again what the back axle also. I would go by that because that is what the cops use and thoese #'s can't be changed no mater what you do to the truck.
  17. bobingardner

    bobingardner Senior Member
    Messages: 136

    Fisher's website provides information to calculate the additional weight created by the leverage of having the plow X feet in front of the axle. Is it safe to assume that manufacturer's take this into account when they recommend a list of plows for a specific truck or is it not significant? Is there a formula for calculating how ballast offsets the weight of the plow?
  18. cja1987

    cja1987 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,407

    No your wrong, no offense :)
    I weigh 165 LBS, does that mean i can't lift 200 LBS?
    With trucks its more about mechanical advantage then anything else.

    As far as the weight goes, the curtis dealer weighed the truck when he installed the plow, he did the front axle, and the entire truck including plow and ballest. He told me that my plow could be 100 LBS heavier and it still would not exceed the axle rating. I don't know if it was him trying his best not to scare me out of putting a 750 LB plow on an F-150, i have not gone to the scales myself. It is noticeable when i have my plow on, the truck does not drop at all with the timbrens, but it does feel front heavy. You feel it in the steering as well. Braking is not effected that much, it is a little. Bottom line, you want the Truck to be in control of the Plow, not the Plow to be in control of the Truck.
  19. dieseltroop

    dieseltroop Member
    Messages: 83

    Hey bobingardner,
    That's what I would like to know to. I am looking at putting a plow on my truck and have been wondering if there is a formula for figureing out how ballast weight would offset the front end weight from the plow. It would sure be nice to know that. Then I could properly equip my truck with the right kind of plow.
  20. bobingardner

    bobingardner Senior Member
    Messages: 136

    I did a web search on the subject before buying my plow and the only thing I found was (weight * distance) = (weight * distance). So 500lbs of ballast 18 inches behind the rear axle will offload 67lbs from the front axle of my truck (133 inch wheelbase). The truck has an available front axle weight of 768lbs so with 500lbs of ballast it should be able to support 835lbs on the front axle. Using information from the GM owner's manual and assuming the plow is 48 inches ahead of the front axle I figured the the maximum allowable weight of the plow would be about 625lbs. I didn't want to be working at the maximum weight so I allowed a 10% "comfort" margin for a max weight of 563lbs. I looked at the Blizzard 760LT and the Fisher 760LD and went with the Fisher based on dealer proximity. I don't know what this all means but without timbrens, and I don't know if the installer adjusted the torsion bars, the truck drops 3/4" with the plow raised without any ballast. The power steering pump seems to work a bit harder but other than that there's not much difference in the way it handles with or without the plow. I stopped by the Chevy dealer today and he had a k1500 Silverado with a Fisher 760RD on it so I guess my caculations were too consertive. I think he cranked the torsion bars on that truck because it was about 3/4" higher than mine. I didn't look to see if they had installed timbrens. I'll do that tomorrow.