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paying subs???

Discussion in 'Commercial Snow Removal' started by ACA L&L, Oct 14, 2008.

  1. ACA L&L

    ACA L&L Senior Member
    Messages: 362

    We are going to be using a guy this year to help keep up with our demand, i think.....

    We are firends but not buddies, he has his own truck, insurance, biz license. He also has a lawn and landscape comapny that he operates in the summer, a one man show. He does great work and can be trusted.

    my question is how do most of u guys handle paying someone who does some of your contracts strictly as a sub. Say we r charging $150 an hour. How would u determine what to pay him? This is all new to us as we usually do it all in house. Since he is paying for everything and we r just supplying the work, how do we determine what to pay him?? any and all feedback would be welcome. Also would it be better to find someone who has a truck ready to go and put them on our insurance and gas bill and pay him hourly? again any feedback on this subject would be great. we need to be sure we r able to cover all of contracted work this year and this is an option.
     
  2. Farm Boss

    Farm Boss Senior Member
    Messages: 183

    Pay him to run his truck with his expenses. I can't tell you what the sub rate is in your area. What I can tell you is that it would get real crazy if you paid him to run his truck with your gas and insurance. What about wear/tear/breakdowns and all the rest that goes with it? Pay him as a sub then you won't have to deal with his truck. Otherwise buy another truck/plow and have someone run that.
     
  3. ACA L&L

    ACA L&L Senior Member
    Messages: 362

    Next year we will be able to outfit another truck with a plow. Right now i think this is the way to go. So do most guys pay there subs by the job, or hourly. I have no idea what the sub rate is here. we have never used one. If someone wants us to do there plowing we charge them our rate. What is the rate in your area for subs? Is it hourly or by job? I know they will be diffrent but we dont have that many people that plow here. The ones that do plow have there own accounts to mangae. Just trying to get an idea as to what is fair, i dont want him to feel like he is not be compensated and i dont want to feel like im throwing money out the window so to speak.

    by the way my step father lives up there minnesota, he said it rained quite a bit this year.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2008
  4. IPLOWSNO

    IPLOWSNO PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,620

    if you say hes good at what he does ? then pay him what hes worth. or do you want all the profit for yourself? be fair with him and im sure he would return the fairness? imo
     
  5. hickslawns

    hickslawns Senior Member
    Messages: 617

    Whatever you do just have it all mapped out before the snow flies. We do a combination with subs. Some accounts they know they will make x dollars each time they plow it. Others it is hourly. Whatever you feel is a fair amount for both parties. Ask him what he needs to make per hour. Are you paying at billing or when you get paid? Might make a difference. If he is willing to wait until you collect, then you probably need to make a smaller margin. If he expects payment upon his invoicing to you, then probably a lower amount. Food for thought.
     
  6. bltp203

    bltp203 Senior Member
    Messages: 484

    Pay him $75 per hour............he makes money, you make money.
     
  7. erkoehler

    erkoehler PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 3,265

    Maybe I missed it, where are you doing the plowing?
     
  8. THEGOLDPRO

    THEGOLDPRO PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 3,136

    100 at least
     
  9. MileHigh

    MileHigh PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,827

    couldn't agree any more.
     
  10. Redneck

    Redneck Senior Member
    Messages: 187

    I'd say between 75-110 per hr depending on how good he is JMO
     
  11. ACA L&L

    ACA L&L Senior Member
    Messages: 362

    If u can beleive it or not Albuquerque New Mexico! we have snow every year, sometimes its not bad the usual plow /shovel/ice melt on walkways for the commercial propertys. Other years are struggling to keep up with the storms.
     
  12. Cassy

    Cassy Senior Member
    Messages: 180

    pay him an hourly rate under what you charge, so if you bill yourselves out at $150 per hour, pay him $50 per hour or something like that. I can't advise on what is the going rate in your area, but something where he's going to be making money even after he puts gas in the truck.

    i sub for a guy in town. I have my own truck, pay for my own gas, and have my own business insurance. He doesn't put me on his insurance. I get paid an hourly rate which covers any gas that I expend during work hours, as well as leaves me with profit.
     
  13. vis

    vis Senior Member
    from 4
    Messages: 324

    We have a guy that helps us using his own truck/plow. He is very good and very efficient. We pay him by the job. Some jobs are for example, 150 per push, so he gets around 60-70$ per time, and most hes in and out of so quick he can do 3 of them an hour. Some may say that its alot of money, but I know when he is on that job he is going to leave it spotless and all i need to do is salt it. Basically the amount of money he makes per storm is how bad I need him to pick up the slack. Some big storms he walks away with 2000 or more, other storms he stays home, it depends on the situation.
     
  14. ACA L&L

    ACA L&L Senior Member
    Messages: 362

    Thanks for all the replies.
    cost of snow plow.....$5500.00
    cost of gas while using that purdy snow plow...unknown
    advice and real world experience from plowsite.....u got it PRICELESS!!!!!

    Thanks again fellas.ussmileyflag
     
  15. Jay brown

    Jay brown PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,783

    what ever you do buy his gas!!!!! this saves tons of money in the end...our GL and WC ins is based on wages and if he doesn't carry WC or GL you'll be paying extra...if you buy the gas it's a straight up wrtie off for taxes.....
     
  16. Gicon

    Gicon Senior Member
    from MA
    Messages: 989

    You didnt say what kind of equipment he is running, but I am assuming a Pick up with 8' Plow. A good rule of thumb is to pay a little bit more than the state or town is paying for that exact set up. The reason you pay more, is you will probably have less hours, and most likely you will care a lot more what happens on your lot, vs the town caring about hitting curbs cars and mailboxes. My subs are $75 per hour to start, and they top out at $100 for a 1 ton pick up with 8' blade.
     
  17. ACA L&L

    ACA L&L Senior Member
    Messages: 362

    3/4 ton with a 7'6" western. Its brand spankin new!

    On a side note, I never would of thought moving here from Chicago a number of years ago that snowplowing would be so lucrative in the desert!
     
  18. got-h2o

    got-h2o 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,439

    Lol. Nevertheless, I'd feel around to see what others are paying subs. I'm a sub and can tell you that the #'s above are unheard of around here. A few years back I was only making $50 per truck (myself, $45 for secondaries). As of last year it's $67 per truck with another company which is pretty good IMHO, travel time btw lots included. Remember to factor in drive time if there is any. This is using my own liability ins and getting paid as a company. Some of the big snow companies here will claim $75+, but I have yet to see it; and also, no way is someone starting at that and booking big hours if they are.

    I'll work all night and day for a few less dollars per hour rather than getting sent home when the snow stops and I'm not needed as much. I've seen that before. My brother in law used to brag when he made $60 and I made $50 like 6-7 years ago. He'd finish up a big storm at like 4am, meanwhile I'd be out till mid day. Plus he got paid per lot time, and I got paid straight through. Break it down and I made twice as much as him.
     
  19. M&A Property Maintenance

    M&A Property Maintenance Senior Member
    Messages: 173

    Listen to this guy, he know what he is talking about

    I am a sub. My first year with my own 3/4 ton 8' blade i made 60 an hour.
    second year 75 an hour
    3 year 90 and hour.
    I guess the more reliable the owner and the plow are the more they should make. I would assume that I would top out around 110
     
  20. Gicon

    Gicon Senior Member
    from MA
    Messages: 989

    If you dont treat your subs well, they can leave you high and dry. If you skimp $5 or $10 per hour to get a less expensive guy in there, if he leaves you flat one storm, it can cost you hundreds and usually thousands !$!$!$