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Out rageous plow insurance...

Discussion in 'Business Fundamentals' started by kah68, Nov 6, 2007.

  1. kah68

    kah68 Senior Member
    Messages: 237

    I am in Ontario and have been asked to plow a small road and the 6 drives off it, plus a couple of others, can anyone tell me how much they are paying for the season, for additional plow insurance, my broker estimated $450.00 originally then she just called me today to tell me it was $ 2,500.00 for a season :eek: . I don't think 8 drives and a small road justify the costs to cover my rear.

    Kirk
     
  2. bribrius

    bribrius PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,609




    they probably dont. welcome to plowing!!! :)
    consider yourself, SELF INSURED, like millions of others with snowplows!
    if it makes you feel better about it for years plowing insurance didnt exist so no one had it. many big businesses are self insured under a seperate division or affiliate. course you dont have the protection they do and everyone is sue happy these days so dont hit anything if you can help it and WHATEVER you do dont hit a person. at least your in canada so any potential victims would get free medical treatment right? that only leaves property damage, pain and suffering, loss of wages. death......
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2007
  3. kah68

    kah68 Senior Member
    Messages: 237

    She told me it was the 'slip and fall' law suits that really cranks the rates up. Does anyone know of a broker who doesn't ask for an arm and a leg for plow insurance?
     
  4. Camden

    Camden PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 6,598

    You were probably quoted such an "Out rageous" amount because you're only a junior member of this site. Wait until you're a senior member and your rates will drop immensely. :waving:
     
  5. Mick

    Mick PlowSite.com Veteran
    from Maine
    Messages: 5,546

    A "self insurance" policy usually means you deposit a certain amount with the State and are issued a Certificate. The days of doing anything that involves risk without insurance are quickly going the way of the dodo bird. I live in a very rural area of a state with a very low incident of lawsuits but I've had a General Liability policy ever since the first driveway I plowed. If you have anything of value or ever hope to, the proper insurance is a relatively cheap way to sleep easy. If you decide it's not worth it, find something else to do.
     
  6. kah68

    kah68 Senior Member
    Messages: 237

    Hillarious, FWIW I've been plowing for 23 years, just not for hire.
     
  7. bribrius

    bribrius PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,609

    mick. i hate to bring up the insurance thing. really do. and dont get me wrong i agree you SHOULD have insurance. i figure ill have them write it for three months then i cancel it. thing is though most people in this state have less coverage than i carry on my PERSONAL policy. now if im not mistaken if someone only carries fifty k which is the minimum in maine i believe anything OVER fifty k the insurance doesnt cover anyway. this gentlemen doesnt live in maine. think im just trying to get acrossed the point that although commercial insurance is definatley a good idea, especially gl if your salting and doing walks. to say that not having snow plow insurance is that taboo doesnt seem very realistic to me since people risk the same or more everyday in their personal vehicles driving to the store. i understand plows can cause damage but people spend more time driving on personal business than trucks spend plowing so i would say the greater risk lies with the person driving to the store for groceries who has low coverage than the plow truck plowing a driveway. like i said. im not sure but im thinking this. there is risk driving everyday. id be more concerned putting twenty k a year on my vehicle in personal use than four hundred miles a year plowing. if i kill someone plowing the insurance wont cover it. if i kill somone driving down to buy a pack of smokes the insurance wont cover it all anyway. and my insurance is WAY beyond any states minimum requirements. correct me if im wrong. many people would pay out all but the first fifty k in a non commercial accident am i right? im no insurance wizard but i actually suggest to people they buy an umbrella policy more than i suggest snow plow insurance. (long as they arent doing commercial accounts or getting out of the truck then i would suggest plowing and gl.).
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2007
  8. starc

    starc Senior Member
    Messages: 229

    Up here in Ontario Canada, the average liability insurace policy required by most properties is 1,000,000 and some require 2,000,000
     
  9. bribrius

    bribrius PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,609

    they range from a million to five million here and above. thats for commercial though the original poster it talking about driveways and a private road right?
     
  10. topdj

    topdj Senior Member
    Messages: 396

    I told my wife that the 300k we have is just not enough anymore, I will have to check the homeowners too. looks like less than a MIL is just crazy stupid
     
  11. JD Dave

    JD Dave PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 11,046

    The bottom line is, how much are you willing to gamble. I have way to much to lose to gamble on insurance. Why would you risk everthing to save a few bucks. If you can't afford insurance, don't plow snow. We have to have 5m just to bid on some contracts. Not having proper insurance isn't just cheap, it's stupid. Who cares what everyone else does, it's yourself you should be worried about. JMO
     
  12. bribrius

    bribrius PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,609


    if you cant afford the proper car insurance coverage dont drive a car.
    if you cant afford the proper health insurance dont get sick.
    if you cant afford the proper property insurance dont buy property.
    its never ending dave. it really is. most people DONT have enough insurance. if someone said they had x amount of dollars to buy insurance i think i would put the priorty in this order .
    good health insurance...(one of the number one reasons people declare bankruptcy or have poor credit.)
    good personal car insurance.... (high likley hood of accident. though bankruptcy from it is uncommon)
    good property insurance (not likley to need but definatley a possible bankruptcy risk)
    umbrella policy (for when the limits on everything else gets maxed. or for unknown possible suits)
    general liability
    commericial automotive (plowing)

    i would move plowing and gl up the list if it was for commercial accounts because of necessity and also the increased risk. what worries me is when people are so concerned over someone carrying a million dollars commercial to plow four driveways when there are are much more likley and devastating risks they are undertaking than plowing the four driveways. such as normal everyday good health insurance which is much more likey to drive them into bk. how many people have went bk from plowing driveways without commercial insurance? far less in fact im betting you can count them on your hand and your toes.
    just my opinion
     
  13. JD Dave

    JD Dave PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 11,046

    You can't get blood from a stone. If you have nothing to lose, then don't get proper insurance. What are you really going to make doing 4 driveways anyway? People can do what they want, all I'm saying is you have to weigh your risk.
     
  14. bribrius

    bribrius PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,609




    he's actually doing six driveways. but thanks. that was all i was looking for. just dont want to see new comers who are just beginning losing money trying to pay plow insurance and skipping out on more important insurances. dont want to discourage them from plowing either if that really is what they want to do. as they line up contracts they will have the money to afford the insurance. till then they are taking another risk on top of whatever other risks they encounter everyday.
     
  15. Mick

    Mick PlowSite.com Veteran
    from Maine
    Messages: 5,546

    Mainly, it's that any advice I give, I try to make sure it's "right"; not just the "get by" and that includes proper insurance. As far as I knows (based on conversations with my agent), an insurance company will not issue a policy for less than a one year period (rates are based on the year). I realize they take payments, but the policy, itself, is written for a year. If policy is cancelled for nonpayment or you cancel it early, you will not likely get another policy (ie: next winter, when you try the same thing). These things go on your insurance record, to which every insurance company has access.

    The minimum policy is for $300,000. Then $500,000 or $1,000,000. Yes, some guys suggest an umbrella policy. But as far as out-of-pocket, it depends on the policy - I think mine is $2,500.
     
  16. topdj

    topdj Senior Member
    Messages: 396

    oh hell with insurance, get one of those new illegals with there new NYS license, thank you Spitzer. I will just buy him a beater truck/plow ride shot gun with the illegal and hook em with customers I know. Then spilt the cash 80/20 we make plowing, after all I bought the beater :)
    if something happens I just walk away.

    Ok Im just kidding
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2007
  17. bribrius

    bribrius PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,609



    thats actually a good idea. hmmmm.
     
  18. powerjoke

    powerjoke PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,341

    i have no simpathy for someone who does'nt want to buy ins. the only reason is that we pay about$50,000 per year in all, that includes buisness liab. gen liab. equip., home, auto bla bla bla.

    IT IS AN EVIL NESECITY. AND JD AND EVERYONE ELSE IS RIGHT YOU HAVE TO HAVE IT, maybe not to the tune of 50k of premiums but you need something, Call GEICO i herd they save you 15%:rolleyes:
     
  19. bribrius

    bribrius PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,609

    simpathy = sympathy
    does'nt = doesn't
    buisness = business
    NESECITY = necessity
    herd = heard


    :)
     
  20. kah68

    kah68 Senior Member
    Messages: 237

    Yeah to shed a little more light, I own a MFG. co. I have two trucks, one 'Yard Beater' one liscensed and insured truck, oh and another new addition. I plow my own 5 acre yard, my own home, my parent's place, my nephew's place and two employee's places, all free of charge. I have had two people plus one small road comittee approach me so I was looking into insurance, just wanted to know the rates people were paying, not questioning the right or wrong of insurance. BTW it was $ 2,500.00 for both trucks so I would likely add it to just one and keep the other one just doing my own (not for hire) stuff. I think I would need 30 accounts and a minimum of 10 events to break even.


    Kirk
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2007