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Organic based performance enhanced de-icers

Discussion in 'Ice Management' started by Ice Le$$, Dec 13, 2011.

  1. Ice Le$$

    Ice Le$$ Junior Member
    Messages: 20

    Hello snow fighters,

    Ice Less is a manufacturer of the IB product line. We are located in NJ and distribute IB products throughout the east coast. You can find out more about our IB products at icelessllc.com or call us at 908.362.5895

    IB5050, which is used to treat rock salt, comes with a corrosive value of -.06 and only 17ppm phosphorus. IB5050 treated rock salt is one of the best performing treated salts you can buy- and now at reasonable prices!

    IB2575, which is used as a liquid anti-icer, comes with a corrosive value of 0 and only 15 ppm phosphorus. IB 2575 is the only non-corrosive, low temperature performing, true organic based, long residual anti-icer on the local market.

    The IB product line is safer on the environment, cost effective and best of all performs in low temps and harsh conditions.

    Ice Less will help with any questions or concerns you may have with anti/de icers. Thank You for your patronage!
     
  2. Lynden-Jeff

    Lynden-Jeff PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,433

    Hi,

    Interesting product. Where can I find MSDS for the two different products.

    Thanks
    Jeff
     
  3. fercho1

    fercho1 Member
    Messages: 31

    just wondering if IB stands for Ice Ban and you guys just are selling ice ban under a different trade name?

    Thanks
     
  4. Ice Le$$

    Ice Le$$ Junior Member
    Messages: 20

    Jeff, We can get those to you.. PM me your e mail address. More info can be found at icelessllc.com also.

    Fercho1, Interesting question.. NO, it does not stand for "Ice Ban". The company that now owns ice ban manufactures a BCS OBPE I believe. But you would have to call Ice Ban to see what they offer these days. The IB product line out performs DCS and BCS and is safer on the environment, with less corrosion, better adhesion and lower Phosphorous.
     
  5. Ice Le$$

    Ice Le$$ Junior Member
    Messages: 20

    Ice Less does offer treating services, on your site, for spraying your bulk rock salt with IB5050. The special we are running in December 2011 is $1.9/gallon (treat at 6-8 gallons/ton) plus a $90 service fee per 25 tons. Call our office to scheduele a date if your interested at 908.362.5895.

    Ice Less does deliver IB5050 treated rock salt to all of NJ, southern NY and eastern PA. Prices delivered range from $115/ton to $145/ton. Please call us if you would like a price quote!
     
  6. fercho1

    fercho1 Member
    Messages: 31

    Okay so what is it exactly? what does "I B" stand for? or is that "proprietary" There are so many liquids out there and they all claim to be the greatest thing since sliced bread.So many different ice melter companies pop up on this site and then fade away or are just selling another companies product under their own brand name so forgive me for being skeptical. I went to your web site and you have calcium chloride in yours along with waste from Trees? how is it that yours is less corrosive than others when your main ingredient is calcium chloride?. In my experience with liquid Calcium Chloride , it works to a certain point but it eats away at everything it comes in contact with. (Truck, spreader,shoes, gloves etc...) How long have you been using this product? and whats its working temperatures? inquiring minds want to know......ussmileyflag
     
  7. Ice Le$$

    Ice Le$$ Junior Member
    Messages: 20

    Fercho1,

    Good questions..
    IB is simply our product line name, Ice Less LLC is our company name. There are two manufacturers of the IB product line, but the other does not supply the contractor market as we do. There are several distributors we work with.

    There are NOT many organic based perfomance enhanced liquids that I can think of on the local market.. I can think of four and most guys probably know of three. Of those four OBPE liquid anti/de icers only two can meet the specs to supply most state DOTs(Not NJ, NJ DOT still mostly uses straight CaCl and is apparently unaware that OBPE exist)

    There ARE many "liquids". The most corrosive on contrete and wires out of na,ca,and mg is Mgcl. When the right "organic" is blended with the right liquid salt it is called an Organic based perfromance enhanced de-icer. The tree liquid by-product that is in IB products reduces the corrosive value of the cacl and the final product to a value of -.06 to <10(while also enhancing the ice melting properties of cacl). Cacl alone is very corrosive. IB5050, used to treat rock salt, comes with a corrisive value around distilled water. Our tree by product effectively eliminates the corrosiveness of cacl but keeps its ice melting properties and low eutectic temps.

    Ask your current supplier for a chemical analysis of their product.. The corrosive value will be listed. Most range between 20-30, anything over 30 is typically not considered to be in the OBPE catagory. IB5050 has a value of -.06, IB793 and IB2575 have values of <10.

    In the OBPE market its not the liquid salt you use, although calcium does have the lowest eutectic temps and would be the best choice, its if your final product comes out with low corrosion properties AND can perform. IB has acomplished that. We use a true organic, from trees, and it contains cellulous fibers. Chemical corrosion inhibitors, or organic chemicals derived by man or other, do not contain the fibers that adhere the liquid product to rock salt(if treating rock salt) or to the road(anti-icing apps). With IB you will see better "bounce and scatter" results, greater adhesion, more residual power, better tracking when anti-icing, reduction of bulk rock salt usage by 40-60%, eutectic temps below -37F, 15-17 ppm Phosphorous(environmentally friendlier), reduction of concrete damage, etc

    Yes- many companies do sell a manufacturers product under another name. We are one of two manufacturers of the IB product line and will not allow our distributos to sell our product under any other name. IB is new to the contractor market but has been on the DOT market for many years.

    Working temps aka eutectic temps (listed on our website) are -37 and greater on all of the IB products. We have not had cold enough temps present yet to freeze IB product. IB5050 is used to treat rock salt. IB793 is used as a liquid de-icer. IB2575 is used as an anti-icer.

    I noticed you are in northeren NJ- we can deliver IB5050 treated rock salt to you at $115/ton. Min of tri-axle delivery, comes with weight ticket. IB5050 or IB2575 we can supply you with at $1.90 gallon, 500 gal min delivery.

    If interested in trying IB products please call our office at 908.362.5895 Thank You
     
  8. todddude

    todddude Junior Member
    Messages: 16

    We sell essentially the same deicer ratios, CAL/OBPE & specs as you do but in the CNY Area. I am sure it is the same supplier. IB Must stand for something as it is similar in nature to the Ice Ban of old as far as ratios, eutectic temps, phosphorous content etc.

    If you don't want to post the info you can PM me the MSDS.
     
  9. Lynden-Jeff

    Lynden-Jeff PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,433

    Unfortunately this is something we find to be the major issue with organically enhance de-icers; the price. We have geo-melt around here which is a beet juice based organic ice melter and similarly priced. At prices anywhere near $2.00/gal it is a far to costly for us to spray. Straight calcium for us is less then $.60/gal, so for the extra $1.40 a gallon im not really concerned about the corrosion, regular rock salt is corrosive to. Don't mean to be negative, infact the opposite. This is a major reason liquids have not taken off. They just have not become more cost effective then rock salt.
     
  10. Ice Le$$

    Ice Le$$ Junior Member
    Messages: 20

    On the contrary..

    Organics bring most of the benefits to the table- "Bounce and scatter" reduction aka adhesion(keeping your liquid material where you want it, on the rock salt or road), Reduction in corrosion, Reduction in bulk rock salt needed to treat the same amount of snow/ice(therefor also reducing chlorides released into the environment), better friction test results, environmentally more responsible/friendly, residual effects- more bang for your buck, etc

    Now with all of those benefits involved at the end of the day would using a rock salt just treated with liquid ca benefit you and your client? Would it cost less? It has been my experience that it would not and that in fact you are spending more money overall than a guy who does use a good OBPE liquid de-icer.

    Regular nacl is corrosive. IB5050 treated rock salt is less corrosive(Remember IB5050 comes with a negative number of -.06 on the corrosive scale and greatly lowers overall corrosion) IB is also the safest OBPE product to use on concrete . I have some samples of new and old rusty steel buried in buckets of IB5050 treated rock salt and have not had corrosion/further corrosion for over six months.

    At a material cost(no mixing labor/equipment considered but would be equal for both) of $15/ton of OBPE in your treated rock salt vs a cost of $5/ton of straight cacl in your treated rock salt you will save money using the OBPE treated product- Simply on the fact that you will use less rock salt with the OBPE product. So at the end, if the costs are so close between straight cacl and an OBPE close why would one not elect to gain all of the other benefits an OBPE brings to the table?

    Don't forget if your using straight cacl to treat your brs you are spending thousands more in equipment and property damage repairs too. Know all of your costs, sometimes using a cheaper product can wind up costing you more.

    I do see you are in an entirely different market and the things that are important to contractors down here on the east coast and near cities, like property damage, may not be as relevant to your contractor market.
     
  11. Ice Le$$

    Ice Le$$ Junior Member
    Messages: 20

    Also, I forgot to mention.. "Liquids" have "taken off".. decades ago. Here, in the USA millions, maybe billions, of OBPE liquids are used each season across the country on both the DOT and contractor levels.
     
  12. Lynden-Jeff

    Lynden-Jeff PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,433

    Yes I agree with a lot of what you said. I was speaking more so in a cost for Directly Liquid Application not a treated salt. Since we store bulk CC we spray our salt off the back of the truck and it works good for us. The corrosion issue is a major one for a lot of people so I think that is a key selling point in your product. The "Bounce and scatter" benefit is not actually a benefit at all with private contractors (At least not around here), and is something I see advertise a lot with organic enhanced products. We want the salt to bounce under cars, in to corners, etc. More of an issue on city roads where salters move faster. In any event I'm not here to start a war or anything and I'm sure your product works great.
     
  13. DKG

    DKG Senior Member
    Messages: 199

    I second that.
     
  14. Ice Le$$

    Ice Le$$ Junior Member
    Messages: 20

    Am I on Plow Site- CANADA? haha, any guys in the states have any comments?

    Yes, things are done differently up top. Here in the US especially around cities/built up areas environmental issues are not just concerns anymore, they are being regulated.

    You mention you spray at the spinner.. Do you wind up with a more active melt right under the spinner/center line of truck and not far out? Would adhesion of your cacl to the rock crystal help get the product out there under those cars etc. Would adhesion to the pavement help keep your cacl where it belongs and increase your residual effects even after precip?
     
  15. Lynden-Jeff

    Lynden-Jeff PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,433

    Well I don't really think liquids have taken off "decades" ago for anyone except municipalities anywhere in north America and private contractors are just catching on now. Canadians have some of the coldest/snowiest winters and liquids are still "newer" for contractors and municipalities in this area. We do not end up with different melt patterns in our spreading other then a slight drip if we crank up the PSI on our spray systems. I don't really think the adhesion of the CaCl would benefit from an organic product unless we used it at excess speed, it already enhances the salt by a minimum 30% without any added bonding, Studies have shown CaCl bonds with the pavement very well without organics inflating the cost of the product. We have done excessive testing with Geomelt (Degraded sugar beet extract) and have found the added $.40/L to be not worth the added cost considering it has 0 melting properties.
     
  16. Ice Le$$

    Ice Le$$ Junior Member
    Messages: 20

    Beet juice/denatured sugar beet mollasses is one of the worst performing organics you could attempt to use. Treating your salt with it will only give you 2-3 degrees gain in working temps and wont reduce the amount of BRS you have to use. Plus it does not stay in solution with mg/ca for long so you technically cant even make it into an OBPE. I cant help you in canada but one day I am sure you will see the difference when using a good OBPE. I assume it is mostly rural up north with lots of road/miles and fewer people.. I would be surprised that the dot de-ices at all in rural canadain areas. Even in a lot of upstate NY towns, once the winter gets going, they just plow and grit/sand. There just isnt enough people/vehicles to afford/warrent the costs of an ice free road system. How close are you to NY?.. maybe i could put you in contact with someone who has IB up there just for your own experimental purposes.

    "Liquids", even OBPE, were sold in the millions of gallons back in the ealry 90s. Well, here in the states Im sure of.
     
  17. Lynden-Jeff

    Lynden-Jeff PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,433

    Maybe they dont use liquids up here because they are worried our igloos will melt... :dizzy: