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Opinions please?

Discussion in 'Sno-Way Discussion' started by addicted, Dec 13, 2005.

  1. addicted

    addicted Senior Member
    Messages: 128

    I am looking for a sno way for my 03 jeep Rubicon. I am impressed with the concept of the back dragging with the down pressure compared to the standard western 61/2 i have on my CJ5. Does this system really work as advertised? My problem with the Western is that the driveways i do are all busy NYC businessmen who have to get to work. This leaves me with a nice layer of ice right down the middle of the driveway that is a pain to get rid of.

    Also,
    I have settled on a 7'6" blade, but can't decide on the model. The new 22 series looks really good, but it's $4k. The St series also looks good because i don't need the lights and it's cheaper, but i am worried about the short 18" height. I have also been looking at used predator plows on ebay, which i think are st series. This is probably the route that i will end up taking, but what should i look out for, what should i avoid, how do these plows hold up?

    I do 10-15 driveways and 1 or 2 small parking lots.

    Thanks in advance. I have been reading this site for the past 2 days and have learned a ton! i know i trust the info that you guys give out.
     
  2. RYDER

    RYDER Senior Member
    Messages: 281

    I have a mt series with down pressure and I love it. the down pressure does work really will.
     
  3. rhkfwain

    rhkfwain Senior Member
    from FWA, IN
    Messages: 304

    addicted,

    Unfortunately, Sno-Way does not recommend putting a snow plow on the Jeep Rubicon package, due to height issues. The frame sits higher than standard Jeep.

    The vehicle will support either an ST or 22 Series Plow (an MT or 26 Series weighs too much for the frame). However, there is not enough adjustment in the sub-frame to set the plow at the proper height. This makes it difficult to hook-up and remove the plow. The height also makes it impossible to have the a-frame in the proper position when plowing (parallel to the ground). This will cause the cutting edge to wear prematurely on the outer edges.

    One could extend the side plates lower on the sub-frame to set the plow at the proper height, however, it would require some fabrication. Be aware that by doing this you could put stresses and loads on the sub-frame and truck frame that have not been tested.

    You are correct, the ST blade is 18" high. The new 22 Series blade is 22" high. Both should perform satisfactorily for your intended uses. I have had numerous customers over the years tell me that they were surprised at how much snow they could move with the short blade height.

    The down pressure option is perfect for your situation and will reduce or eliminate the trail down the middle that you mention.

    I hope this answers your questions, please let me know if you have any others. I will do my best to answer them.
     
  4. addicted

    addicted Senior Member
    Messages: 128

    rhkfwain,
    Thanks for the info. If only the dealer was as forthcoming with this information. . .

    Fab work is not a problem for me, but just out of curiosity, how much lower would the mount need to be made? The Rubi is not that much higher than a stock Sahara with the 30" tires. maybe 2" at best, and i have a winch on the front witch brings it down a little. If all i need to worry about is uneven wear, that's OK.

    If i go the new route, would modifying the mount void the warranty?

    One more question!
    With the new(22) and old(ST) style mounts, what do they look like when installed and how low do they hang without the plow? Also, how hard is it to remove the mount in the off season when i want to go into the woods?
    Any pictures would be greatly appreciated.
     
  5. corkireland

    corkireland Senior Member
    Messages: 129

    Hey Rick,

    Maybe you can put some rumors to rest for me. I h ave an MT Series blade that I bought for narrower truck so I had the 6'8" blade. However Now I have a silverado and I have the blade on it. I probably will upgrade the moldboard to the 7'6" MT, but have heard rumors about possbilty being able to upgrade to an 8'0" moldboard of either an HT or 25" series blade. Is there anytruth in this? I understadn the MT seris A frame and truckmount were designd for so much weight but did not know what the interachanability was? Any help would be greatly apprecieated!

    Dave Sweeney
     
  6. rhkfwain

    rhkfwain Senior Member
    from FWA, IN
    Messages: 304

    2003 Jeep Rubicon

    addicted,

    I don't know the dealer you are speaking of, it is out of my territory. However, in defense of the dealer, they are trained to abide by our application guide (for alot of reasons, one being your safety and another being liability). Sno-Way, like all plow manufacturers follows strict standards on GVWR, GAWR, and FMVSS guidelines when testing and approving an application. If we exclude an application, our dealers know that there is good reason and rationale behind it and they generally don't question it.

    After speaking with our engineering department, it is simply a height issue. The Rubicon does sit about 2-3" higher than Liberty. This additional height creates a problem in attaching and removing our plow using our hydraulic mounting system. The additional height also puts the a-frame/blade in a position that adds additional stresses to plow and the cutting edge will wear prematurely on the outside edges (smile-wear).

    While we do not recommend it, the side plates of our mounting system could be re-fabricated with extensions to lower the plow within the recommended range. Understand that anytime you do this you are in untested waters. The re-fabrication of the sub-frame can change load and stress points. Additional reinforcement on the side plates may be required. Any modifications to the sub-frame would void warranty on the sub-frame.

    I am not at the factory office, I work out of my home. I don't have any pictures of a Jeep installation with sub-frame only. I have an e-mail request in to see if I can obtain any. If I can get some, I will post (after I figure out how the heck to do it).

    I have thought of a couple other questions that I have and will discuss this further with our engineering department and report any additional information that I can.

    Again be aware, that we do not recommend this application. Please let me know if you have any further questions.
     
  7. addicted

    addicted Senior Member
    Messages: 128

    Rick,
    You are the best. A straight up answer with details. Priceless!

    I have decided on a sno way weather they recommend it or not. I will be doing the install, so i don't thing the dealer shoud care. Besides, i work at an engineering firm, so i can have my senior guy figure out the additional mounting and such as needed. He's good.

    One other ??
    Why is a new mount so expensive? I called 2 dealers today and they both said $600! I can understand recouping R&D cost, but damn!

    -Mike
     
  8. rhkfwain

    rhkfwain Senior Member
    from FWA, IN
    Messages: 304

    8'-0" Blade for MT Series Plow

    Dave Sweeney,

    You don't say if your Silverado is a 1/2 or 3/4 ton. In either case, a 7'-6" blade will cover the width of the vehicle. I run a Sno-Way 29 Series x 7'-6" on my 2005 2500 HD and it covers the width of the vehicle at full angle.

    The MT Series is designed for full-size SUV and 1/2-ton 4 x 4 vehicles and may be used for some light commercial applications such as lot cleanup, drives, and sidewalks. While very durable, it certainly is not our heavy-weight!

    The MT Series was designed to accommodate a 7'-6" blade. The 8'-0" blade was designed for our old HT Series. The blade connection points are the same on the MT and HT Series. Therefore, it is possible to put an 8'-0" blade on your MT package but I would not recommend it. The HT Series had a heavier a-frame, heavier swing frame, larger diameter angle cylinders. The MT and HT both have same lift cylinder.

    Plus my guess is it would be difficult to locate an HT 8'-0" Blade as the HT Series has been replaced with 29 Series two years ago and I know that my territory is completely depleted of any 8'-0" blades.

    I hope this answers your questions.
     
  9. rhkfwain

    rhkfwain Senior Member
    from FWA, IN
    Messages: 304

    Sno-Way on Jeep Rubicon

    Mike,

    I did not totally answer your question regarding warranty. Modifications to the sub-frame would void the sub-frame warranty. Can't back down on that one. Plow warranty is a different issue. Warranty on plow would fall under the cause and effect category. If the plow is setup and installed properly, the plow would be covered under warranty (defects in materials and workmanship). However, any plow failure caused by the modification to the sub-frame, would not be covered by our warranty (e.g., modified sub-frame fails under stress of hitting a man hole cover...plow jams back into truck frame...bends plow a-frame...damages truck...Not covered under warranty because the modified sub-frame was the cause).

    Pricing on sub-frames, are you buying a whole plow package or just the sub-frame? I know our whole plow package is priced very competitively with the rest of the industry, in fact most dealers in my territory are offering pricing that is at or below competition. All Sno-Way sub-frames are the same price. If you are only purchasing the sub-frame, you can go to our website to obtain other dealers names and check pricing. Sub-frames are shippable via UPS.

    Advise if further questions.
     
  10. basher

    basher PlowSite Fanatic
    from 19707
    Messages: 8,992

    Rubicon guy, Consider changing your wheels and tires. and go 22 series. I have had one customer go that route with good success. Go low enough to achieve the recommended height or you will not get a good scrape except in the straight position.
    The lights are needed not so you can see but so they can see you, it's a sue happy world. I am installing a 22 on a 2000 wrangler monday will try to get pics to email you. as for price, do you have a blade pac already? If not, why buy just the mount? It's always more to build anything from the parts bin. Complete units with DP are very competitive (cheap when you consider no one else offers DP) 4 grand should get you all the bells and whistles including DP, lexan, wireless controls, a deflextor and installation. avoid internet purchases, your local dealer can provide service advice and warranty's back up better then some computer. When it's snowing, if you do have a problem the local guy is not going to be as responsive to a internet purchase as he is to his own customers. Where I work we do outside purchase repair work from 9-5 mon-fri by appointment only. Our customers get 24/7 emergency service

    Silverado guy. no more then 7.5 on the MT frame, it's not designed for the 8 foot, you will have trouble if you start mis-matching componets.
     
  11. addicted

    addicted Senior Member
    Messages: 128

    Basher, pics would be great.
    I don't have anything. I am also not a professional like alot of other guys here. Plowing helps me pay for christmas presents for my family and especially me. It in no way puts food on the table. This is why i would like to take the cheapo way out. Also, the dealer service is not a major concern for me. I can fix just about anything, and would probably just buy some common spare parts. I am looking at a used 2 seasons 7'6" ST series. It has the DP and wireless. It also comes with a mount and lights. I will look into the different tire angle, however i have the MT/R's on it now and they are incredible in the snow. What more can you tell me about the 22 series Vs. the ST?

    Rick,
    Again, good info. I figured as much. The pricing question was directed at the vehicle mount only. I have been looking around fo used plow setups and found one that i think i am going to go with. All i would need it the veichle mount.

    Basically, I am trying to take the best value, and not necessarily the cheap way. I am the type of person who will spend more up front to benifit the long term if there is sufficient reason to do so. Right now, i feel that the benifits of the new 22 series over the used ST are not worth the $2k or so difference.
    But please feel free to convince me otherwise.

    - Mike
     
  12. basher

    basher PlowSite Fanatic
    from 19707
    Messages: 8,992

    you might get by with a 96100301 mount and a three hole nose piece (96100302) with a used ST. Remember Pulse control hyd. are not common make sure your "common Parts" are compatible. Tires good for driving around in the snow, mud, sand are not necessary good for plowing where you want to get down to the pavement not "float" up on top.
    As far as 18 vs 22, Snoway doesn't go backward nor change for change's sake. I don't think the 2 are comparable, the ST seems like a toy in comparison, although there are a lot of hard working money making STs out there plowing snow.
    I know of people out there using MT's without lights and a POLY wearedge and moldboard with good success on Jeeps.
    Again mount height is critical.
     
  13. addicted

    addicted Senior Member
    Messages: 128

    Thanks for the heads up. I know that the St is an older model, but it seems like it should be just fine for my purposes. The spare parts would be sourced from my local sno way dealer, so compatibility shouldn't be a prob., but what do you mean by pulse control hyd.?

    I actually fell in love with the 22 series when i went to the dealer to look at them, but the price, although competitive with other brands, is what is pushing me away from ANY new plow purchase.

    Good point about the lights. I didn't think about it that way, but the dealer told me that they were not needed in the Rubi with the ST because the vehicle lights will shine clear over the short blade.

    All- This is great input. Keep it coming!:drinkup:
     
  14. basher

    basher PlowSite Fanatic
    from 19707
    Messages: 8,992

    The St and 22 series have pulse controlled hyd. that's what the receiver box the pump wiring harness is conected to is all about. if you had a wired control it would only have 3 wires Low volt power, ground and a pulse line. Pulse control is fast, allows relatively low cost wireless, and makes vehicle wiring a snap. For you it only matters in that the coils have to be the proper voltage, Red coils and black coils are not interchangeable, etc.
    As I said the lights are not about visibility but about liability. thats why on the newer models light are not optional. Snoway is trying to protect themselves from possible liability. Whether the judge dismisses you from the suit or not the legal costs are killer. If the ST has no lights you could end up spending another 500-600 on a light kit and harness.
    You might pull your jeep up to the ST and check out visablity. Your jeep sits high and you could have visability problems. Snoway calls this a Personal use plow while the 22 is considered Professional grade.
    I think the St is a fine blade just a little limited. Do not let the snow get to deep or you could have issuses.
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2005
  15. addicted

    addicted Senior Member
    Messages: 128

    Basher- you got the wheels turnin in my head. I am bidding on a used ST set up on ebay. It ends tonight. If you could send me some pics before then i would really appreciate it. Basically i have come down to this: Win this ST- it has lights by the way, or go with the 22 new from the dealer.

    What i find interesting is that my dealer told me that the ST is rated for light commercial. I find this disturbing that they would blow smoke up my --- after i told them exactly what i intend to use it for-light commercial.
     
  16. basher

    basher PlowSite Fanatic
    from 19707
    Messages: 8,992

    Sure it's light commercial, it's good for sidewalks, etc. Use with a poly wear edge on pavers. The local horse track has them on tacomas used by security they drive around the same path constantly 24/7 they never push more then a inch. they work great for that kind of work.
    They can do the work they just take longer, you have to plow more often, or remove in layers, like cutting tall grass with a push mower.
    Send me an email address and I'll send some pictures. the files are to big for the allowed space.
    There is no room to adjust the factory mount any lower then the one they installed today, I didn't think or I'd have a measurement. I'll take one and give you a tare height on the jeep along with tire size when I send the pictures.
     
  17. addicted

    addicted Senior Member
    Messages: 128

  18. addicted

    addicted Senior Member
    Messages: 128

    edit- i can't spell my own email address.
     
  19. addicted

    addicted Senior Member
    Messages: 128

    Basher-
    Thanks for the picks bud. That thing hangs low and out there! can that be easily removed for 4 wheeling and normal ground clearance?

    I guess you are a dealer in delaware??If you don't mind me asking, how long did it take to install that , and what did that person pay for the plow, less install?

    I lost the 7"6" ST on ebay, so unless i find a similar deal i am headed to the dealer this week for a 22 series.
     
  20. basher

    basher PlowSite Fanatic
    from 19707
    Messages: 8,992

    Yes I am a dealer in DE, but don't tell anybody.
    The plow world revolves around 9.5 and 10 inches to pin centers. It keeps geo. right when angling. There are only 14 fasteners total in the entire mount. Drill four holes(17/32). Remove should be easy, just remember NEW nylock nuts every time.
    from pallet to working plow about 3 hours. We flat rate the installers 4 hours on SNOWAY units.
    The bill on this unit was 4,069 total. It was a 6'8" blade (i think it was a mistake, I tried to sell him 7'6") with a poly wear edge, Excellent for pavers and sealed concrete. He got all the bells and whistles, DP, WIRELESS, LEXAN, Heated wipers, Installation, the only thing he didn't get was a deflector which I think was a mistake unless you ONLY do driveways. Blow over when you're plowing at speed, plays h^#% on visibility and wiper transmissions. We deduct 250.00 C&C and heated wipers are 169.00 installed (with plow purchase normally $199.00) and there is no sales tax in DE.
    Freight is killing us. we ran out of these units and I had to bring this one in. The freight bill was almost $300.00, which came out of MY pockect so I guess momma gets cultured pearls this Christmas.
    Have a Great and Merry Christmas.