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Ontario pricing

Discussion in 'Bidding & Estimating' started by musclecarboy, Aug 20, 2007.

  1. musclecarboy

    musclecarboy 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,303

    Hi everyone,
    I'm looking to go after small commercial jobs this year. There are many new plazas in the area and it's something less stressful than residental jobs. What is general pricing for commercial jobs? (like per 1k sq ft)
     
  2. JD Dave

    JD Dave PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 11,046

    Where are you exactly or where are you thinking of plowing.
     
  3. musclecarboy

    musclecarboy 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,303

    I live in Richmond Hill. Plan on R.Hill \, Markham, Aurora areas.
     
  4. JD Dave

    JD Dave PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 11,046

    I can't give you any real hard pricing numbers because it's just not that easy. I'm not sure how big you want. I find the bigger the place the less competition there is. You are in a great area for expansion. It's takes time to get good commercial accounts, I'd rather bid 20 and get 1, then get 20 and only make money on 1. There is no set pricing for commercial. I know my overhead and price accordingly.
     
  5. musclecarboy

    musclecarboy 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,303

    OK cool. Thanks.
     
  6. Lynden-Jeff

    Lynden-Jeff PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,433

    Hey,

    I am in the same boat. How do you structure your commercial contracts? Is it X amount of money to remove all possible snow fall or do you base it as X amount for up to 10 plows and then X amount per plow after that to cover your self? Hope that makes sense lol. Do you do any residential dave?

    Thanks
    Jeff
     
  7. musclecarboy

    musclecarboy 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,303

    Personally, I've got 6 residential customers so far. I don't think I'll get more because they're too hard to work with and cost too much to service (4h of resi plowing meand like 2 hours of that is drving). Commercial is so much easier at the end of the day IMO
     
  8. JD Dave

    JD Dave PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 11,046

    I don't have any res. I do the odd neighbors drive when they are in a bind and I don't charge them and I tell them it's a one time thing. When I bought my first truck when I was 16, I subed for a guy for a few years untill I was done school. During that time on big storms I would plow driveways and shovel walkways for extra $ ( I had lots of energy then). Things are alot different now, insurance is a big deal. We pay more in insurance now then we grossed 12 years ago. Have you ever subbed with anybody before, it's a good way to learn alot about productivity and if you have a half decent truck, you should be able to make 7K gauranteed and alot more if it snows alot. What do you have for equipment and what else do you do for money?
     
  9. musclecarboy

    musclecarboy 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,303

    Dave,
    What insurance is required for plowing? Is it different if you sub or are doing it alone? Also, how do you find some1 to sub for? This will be my first truck (I'm 16). What did you base the 7k on? Thats a very nice number to work with!

    Thanks for the help,
    Tom
     
  10. JD Dave

    JD Dave PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 11,046

    Sorry Jeff I didn't answer your Question. You can do a contract in a lot of ways, like per push with a guarantee of 10 like you said and then addition pushes will be extra. Most people around here like a contract for 5 months starting Nov 15 and ending April 15. It's really hard to figure out pricing, untill you have done it for a few years. Most of our contracts, include plowing, salting, and hauling of snow. We've came up with a pricing structure that serves our clients very well and is good for us. When your young it's hard to get people to believe in you and when your 16 I'm not sure you can get snow insurance or afford it. It might be hard plowing snow and going to school. Trust me school is very important. You can look in the paper for people needing subs or call around. For a late model pick-up with a good driver $70/hour with a 100 houir guarantee is what I was going with. Some will be more or less depending on your truck and if you are available 24/7. We have subs with tractors and we carry the insurance for them for the winter, I'm not sure how insuring a pick up sub would work. What area are you from Jeff?
     
  11. musclecarboy

    musclecarboy 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,303

    I think people believing in me will be the biggest obstacle. I understand school is important but my school starts at 9 and ends at 2:30 so there's lots of space for plowing before and after. Will the hourly wage go up if you have a V-plow? Is it worth the extra investment? Do most people give an hour guarantee for the season?
    Thanks again
     
  12. JD Dave

    JD Dave PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 11,046

    I'm not sure of the big contractors out your way, but call them and see what they are paying. I would not plow for a guy if I wasn't offered a guarantee. Another way you can do it is just work for a company when it snows as a driver. Might be better to learn and you might end up with more money in the end. Do your parents care if you are out all night? What type of machinery can you run or have you run? Have you ever plowed a parking lot before? These are Q's that they are going to ask you? I wish you were closer because I might even give you a try. Most places will pay more for a V Blade.
     
  13. musclecarboy

    musclecarboy 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,303

    The only plow experience I have is with a farm tractor. I have experience driving a pick up for about 3.5 years (started driving a Ram 1500 when I was 13). I have plowed about 1km total of roads on our farm for 2 seasons now.
    As for being a driver, this is something I was thinking about but I think they're less likely to let me use their equipment and risk increasing their insurance costs etc vs. using my own stuff. I'm in the market for a 2003/04 Ram 2500/3500 SRW 4x4 diesel. I have $22k of my own money and have access to $12k loan (payments approx $246/month, 60 month, will be paid off next summer in FULL).

    As far as insurance goes, what insurance do you have or would I need as a sub over and above auto ins.?
    Thanks, You've been a big help!

    p.s. that would be cool is I was closer, I'd work 4 you in a second....too bad
     
  14. JD Dave

    JD Dave PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 11,046

    You have a good chunk of money saved up IMO! Do you live on a working farm? You won't have your full license this winter will you? Will the truck be in your dad's name for insurance purpose's? Mine was as your age.
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2007
  15. musclecarboy

    musclecarboy 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,303

    I don't live on the farm, we live in Richmond Hill. I'll have my G2 in Nov. I wasn't really sure what's req'd for insurance. Should it be in my dad's name? What insurance is required to work as a SUB?
    Thanks.
     
  16. JD Dave

    JD Dave PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 11,046

    The insurance will be killer in your name and you are suppose to have snow insurance even if you are subbing. The guy you are plowing for will cover the liability insurance for slip and falls.
     
  17. musclecarboy

    musclecarboy 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,303

    I've heard about "snow insurance" but what exactly is this? What company are you with? Also, (if I'm not being too rude) what are your premiums like?
    Thanks
     
  18. JD Dave

    JD Dave PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 11,046

    No offence but what I pay will have nothing to do with you. I have 18 units running and they are mostly tractors. You will probably have to use the same insurance broker your parents have and they will give you options. The insurance alone on your truck in your name will make you sick. Anyway Good Luck
     
  19. musclecarboy

    musclecarboy 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,303

    Sorry, I didn't mean to be rude. I've been seeing $425/month with $1000 deductibles, 1mil liability for just basic auto coverage. I'll have to give the insurance agent a call. Thanks for all your help.
     
  20. Lynden-Jeff

    Lynden-Jeff PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,433

    Hey,

    Well a little more info from me, im 21 so insurance will be brutal, Ill be plowing in the hamilton/burlington area and northward. Im thinking if I do residentials it will all be in one little community named carlisle south of guelph.

    My setup for plowing is a 04 Diesel F250 short box, super cab with a straight blade. I have been offerend subbing, but was worried about the guarenteed hours. I don't want to go poor, and if there is no guarentee with the subbing then I may just do my own contracts. My equiprtment dealer has even offered to give me a hand provided I have trouble (this is if I take the sub work I have been offered) as they are also the same dealer as this company.

    Thanks for the info.

    Cheers