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Old style hydraulic system not lifting fully

Discussion in 'Fisher Engineering Discussion' started by BoulderBronco, Oct 22, 2006.

  1. BoulderBronco

    BoulderBronco Senior Member
    Messages: 233

    I have the old engine driven pump which I really like. But for the last few years it has been having trouble lifting the plow unless the RPM's are over 1800. I am used to it but I had to go out for the first time this season last night and remembered how much of a PITA it is. When it's cold it's better (almolst normal.) But after a few minutes of plowing and heating it up it takes high RPM's to raise the plow. The fluid is full and clean. I have tried adjusting the valves but it does nothing. What could the problem be? Thanks. It's real annoying so I really want to get it fixed before the next snow. Thanks for any help you can give me.
     
  2. Flipper

    Flipper PlowSite.com Addict
    from CT
    Messages: 1,180

    Those pumps just wear out. Not rebuildable. Just get a new pump. I run synthetic ATF with a bit of Meyer Fluid in it. Some will tell you not to mix but I have for years with no problems or freeze ups. The synthetic is much better in all temp ranges.
     
  3. Bruce'sEx

    Bruce'sEx Senior Member
    Messages: 873

    Yeah Pumps Gone, They can do a pressue test on it, at most plow dealers to let you know. if it's that for sure. But when ours wasn't lifting with out high revs, that was it was.
     
  4. Flipper

    Flipper PlowSite.com Addict
    from CT
    Messages: 1,180

    You will be amazed when you do replace it at the speed, not that it is the fastest, but in how much it had really worn out.


    IMO they are still the most reliable and efficient systems that were made.
     
  5. BoulderBronco

    BoulderBronco Senior Member
    Messages: 233

    Ok thanks. I am pretty good with trucks and engines so could I test it myself? I assume all I would need are the specs it is suposed to be and a pressure tester with the correct fitting. I may upgrade to the electrohydrolic unit since a new pump would costs me around $300 anyway. And just to be sure you guys think it can be the pump even though it angles fine at all times and lifts fine when cold? Thanks again.
     
  6. Flipper

    Flipper PlowSite.com Addict
    from CT
    Messages: 1,180

    The upgrade to electric hydro will likely run over a grand for a pump unit, controller and harness even used won't save much. Fisher units on Ebay sell for well over $500.

    I would stay with the belt drive pump any way I could.

    I just ordered a new Fisher and deleted the electric hydro pack. I am going to make it work in my new F350 by copying the central hydro setup in my 550 except just using the fisher pump and controls.
     
  7. BoulderBronco

    BoulderBronco Senior Member
    Messages: 233

    I agree that the old style is better. But it would just be easier to go with the newer unit. All I need is the pump and contoller and I am good to go. I can get a used pump for $200-$400 and a controller for under $100. Reason is that I take my plow setup off every year. I was also thinking that maybe the control valve was going? It just seems weird that a failing pump would operate the way it is. I would hate to get a new pump and have the same problem. So are you making custom brackets and what not for your F350 to run the belt driven pump?
     
  8. Flipper

    Flipper PlowSite.com Addict
    from CT
    Messages: 1,180

    Are you getting some kind of aftermarket pump? Not sure where you can find a Fisher out front pump for that money.

    The only way the control valves go are seizing up. If they are djusted right (self center) then it is the pump, no question.

    I take the plow headgear off. All you have to do is undo the belt (I have a pumpmate so pull the pin) an stick the hoses behind the grille.

    Yeah I am going to make a bracket to move the alternator over a bit and mount the pump by it. Then I will drive it off the crank with an idler setup for tension. I may actually use Fisher's electric clutch pump and reservoir instead of the older pump and have an on/pff switch.
     
  9. Bruce'sEx

    Bruce'sEx Senior Member
    Messages: 873

    Yup, We still have three under the hood belt driven pumps, two still plow. ones set to go as a backup
     
  10. BoulderBronco

    BoulderBronco Senior Member
    Messages: 233

    I have been keeping an eye on Ebay for the Western/Fisher pumps. I have seen a few go in the last week or two for around $200-$300. I take my headgear off my truck every spring because I have a custom winch bumper that I have on during the summer for Off roading. The headgear will not work with my bumper. Be sure you post some pics of your setup when your done. I bet there are others out there who would like to do the same. Anyway sounds like I need to find myself a new pump.

    Bruce you want to sell me one?
     
  11. tvpierce

    tvpierce Senior Member
    from Maine
    Messages: 209

    The reason it angles fine is that it takes very little force to angle a plow -- if you removed the rams, you could do it easily with one hand. Lifting the plow is another story. The plow weighs maybe 700 lbs. Add the negative advantage of lifting from the a-frame, and it's probably close to the equivalent of lifting 1000 lbs. (not something you could do with one hand). When the fluid is cold and thick, you get better pressure. As it heats up, you lose pressure.

    IMHO, you'd be crazy to scrap a perfectly good belt driven system for an electric/hydraulic system. Fisher didn't go to electric/hydaulic because it was an improvement. They did it because model variations, tight quarters under modern hoods, and serpenitne belts were all making it nearly impossible to stay current with truck manufacturers. If you have a truck that already has a belt-driven system on it, you're way ahead of the game.

    jp
     
  12. WRIGHTTRAILERS

    WRIGHTTRAILERS Member
    Messages: 38

    A number of companies offer brand new aftermarket replacement units starting for around $500-$600 with control box. We sell monarch kits, but other companies including fenner make similar kits. That would be a much better route than $400-500 for a used unit, which may likely wind up with problems soon thereafter. The kits are never very fancy and usually contain just rocker or toggle switches, but they are inexpensive and simple to maintain, diagnose, and fix.

    Adam Caron
    Wright Trailers
    Seekonk, Ma
     
  13. justme-

    justme- 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,138

    Control valves can also go by leaking most.
    Pump and valve problems always show up in the lift before the angle because the weight of the plow. There is very little resistance to an angle motion in comparison to lifting the weight of the plow blade.

    A bad pump will cause slow lift at idle, a bad control valve (which is VERY COMMON) will be evident by the plow creeping down at idle- holding above idle will stop it but it will not stay raised at idle on it's own. The cause is the lift seals wear out. Accelerated by failing to use the carry chain.

    Electro pumps beat the heck out of the trucks electrical system- I'd go for a belt driven in a heart beat if there was any room under my hood for one.