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Non-Sodium Based Ice Control

Discussion in 'Ice Management' started by merrimacmill, Aug 16, 2011.

  1. merrimacmill

    merrimacmill PlowSite.com Addict
    from MA
    Messages: 1,822

    I have an opportunity on a lot that is not allowed to use any sodium based ice control due to environmental regulations for the location of the property. The property manager has been using sand for they're ice control, and the lot always looks horrible with ice, snow pack, slush, etc. They have been seeking other means of ice control, and have approached me for a bid, while also asking me for ideas. I feel that if I can come up with something for them, it will give me a advantage in the bidding.

    I immediately started thinking through all the various ways to melt ice that I've been seeing come up in the industry and still have not come up with a cost effective way to control ice without using salt. We are talking about a shopping plaza that is several acres and contains 1 large anchor store and the rest of the tenants are smaller retail and restaurant stores, so bagged product is not an option.

    I don't think there is a perfect answer, otherwise we would all be using it. But does anyone have any thoughts on using a combination of methods (granular, and liquids) to at least provide a somewhat significant improvement for this PM over using just straight sand?
     
  2. salopez

    salopez Senior Member
    Messages: 873

    what about liquid magic or magic salt? the combination changes the chem make up of the salt to be more enviornmentally friendly.

    can you get specifics on to their enviormental regs?
     
  3. merrimacmill

    merrimacmill PlowSite.com Addict
    from MA
    Messages: 1,822

    Unfortunately the most specifics I was able to get from the PM was that it would have to be a "non-sodium based product, otherwise sand will have to be used".
     
  4. salopez

    salopez Senior Member
    Messages: 873

    got to love that! we need something, but will not help you figure out what we need...just cause...
     
  5. ChlorideGuy

    ChlorideGuy Member
    Messages: 77

    Give us a ring we can tell you what you need we have a few people with the same requirments that your coustomers is needing also i see your loacated in Ma. we will have a sales man up there at the next snow show Sept. 14 and 15th Thanks Mike
    877 3 4BRINE
     
  6. Westhardt Corp.

    Westhardt Corp. Senior Member
    Messages: 845

    EVERYBODY wants a "non sodum-based" deicer. Right up until they see the price, then the tune changes reeeal quick. Fact is, there's a reason why basic sodium chloride is the most widely used deicer--price. The only exceptions I've seen are industry-specific, like aviation.

    If this is a property manager asking you, I'd say there's a 99.8% chance they have no idea what they're talking about--just what sounded good in some trade magazine's article on environmental awareness and how it attracts tenants.

    :D
     
  7. merrimacmill

    merrimacmill PlowSite.com Addict
    from MA
    Messages: 1,822


    I completely agree with you!
     
  8. forestfireguy

    forestfireguy PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,276

    You guys hit the nail on the head.........

    PRICE is the driving factor, but locally the push is to get away from Chlorides, not sodium. Wonder why the difference.

    Potassium Acetate is an option, albeit a pricey one. Sand treated with Magic or the like? Maybe a middle of the road option to present and keep costs down while providing some of the melt benefit, and the traction aid they are accustomed to....Personally I hate sand, but if the need for "something" presented itself I'm not above it with the right contract.

    Use caution with expectations and contract language though.....But you know that already I'm sure.
     
  9. Knockah22

    Knockah22 Senior Member
    Messages: 240

    Don't know if this will help, but here's the first thing that came to mind after reading this thread. http://www.ossian.com/ has a product called Winter Green in both granular and liqiid forms. There website is currently getting updated, but if you have questions call them, they are great to work with. Hope this helps, good luck.
     
  10. Westhardt Corp.

    Westhardt Corp. Senior Member
    Messages: 845

  11. Westhardt Corp.

    Westhardt Corp. Senior Member
    Messages: 845

    Sand is great. You spread it over the now-packed snow & ice that you couldn't melt with your pricey Al Gore Foo Foo Ice Melt, so that you have at least a modicum of traction and hopefully nobody kills themselves.

    :mechanic: