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No product on sidewalks.. HELP!!!

Discussion in 'Ice Management' started by andrewlawnrangr, Nov 21, 2007.

  1. andrewlawnrangr

    andrewlawnrangr Senior Member
    Messages: 339

    have a retirment couminty that just got new sidewalks on the property. we were told that we CAN NOT apply any chemicals to these. we thought of, covering the walks with plastic and use rubber mats over top, sand, grit, quarry dust, but all of there are a no go because they dont want to have the gritty products in the residents or in any building.. they are a great customer and cant afford to lose them.. ( we do all maintenance, year round) about 50k in that so im stuck here.. what do i do......
  2. Snowpower

    Snowpower Senior Member
    Messages: 636

    Have them sign off on it in the agreement and just remove the snow.

    If they dont want a chemical or alternative product they have left you little options short of protecting yourself in your agreement, or re educating them to safe non damaging products available and your awsome skillz at applying them correctly and they wont have any damage.

    They are over reacting, obviously.

    Honestly though if someone there is all freaky about it and the contractor that installed the walks has said no chemicals (to protect himself) then I would just have them sign a no ice control on da walks clause and be done with it.
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2007
  3. andrewlawnrangr

    andrewlawnrangr Senior Member
    Messages: 339

    what are my optiains for no corrorsive products/ no chemical.. oh dam this is goin to be a headache.....we were thinking about those mats you see at the malls that have space between and cover the walks. ok thanks everyone
  4. all seasons

    all seasons Member
    Messages: 61

    have you talked to them about calcium or magnesium chloride?
  5. bam

    bam Senior Member
    from .
    Messages: 201

    all seasons -

    calcium and mag chloride are corrosive. calcium may be the worst chloride to apply.

    CMA (calcium magnesium acetate) is really the only viable product. It will also cost around $75 per 50lbs. most suppliers sell it in 1000lb. supersacs. It doesn't really melt the snow, rather makes it into a "slushy liquid" and takes a long time to do so.

    The blended products that claim to have CMA in it, have only up to 2%CMA. the other 98% of the bag contains sodium, mag, or calcium chloride, or a combination of these products. All chlorides are going to have some environmental and corrosive impact.
  6. 6feetdeep

    6feetdeep Senior Member
    Messages: 141

    I would definately get an attorney to write something up to cover your behind, then make sure they sign off! Retirement community, no de-icer or traction products on sidewalks:dizzy::cry: Scary, Very scary. Make sure you have a clause that covers snow that blows back onto surfaces after you clear them, or ANY other circumstance that could and inevitably (sp?) WILL happen. Personally, I would have a hard time accepting that risk.
  7. all seasons

    all seasons Member
    Messages: 61

    Thanx for the info, when I go into the supply store and ask for products that are safe for concrete, these are the ones that they point out and I trust that they are giving me good info, I will be more careful in the future
  8. powerjoke

    powerjoke PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,341

    NASCAR uses jet turbine engines mounted on trucks or trailers to dry the track and to heat it up so.............how much is this client willing to paypayupLOL

    short of maybe a propane burner and drying the walks you are not left eith alot of choices
  9. KGRlandscapeing

    KGRlandscapeing 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,660

    rip up side walk put copper pipe under repour run hot water threw pipes. now we have a heated side walk which requires plow man to stay in his nice warm truck. all jokes aside have a lawer somebody smarter then us draw up a contract that states that the snow will be removed and ur not using any kind of material to deter ice or falls so not law suits fall on u.
  10. nevrnf

    nevrnf Senior Member
    Messages: 456

    You might want to check into This as an option to the chemical destruction of the concrete
  11. Lawn Care Plus

    Lawn Care Plus Senior Member
    Messages: 135

    They are correct. NOTHING on NEW CONCRETE. Of course you can apply sand.

    But ice melt of any kind will be destructive for 18 months.

    I wish I could get my clients to understand this.

    Go and discuss sand, just enough to keep the slipage down.

    Also have them relieve you from liability due to slippage once you clear the walks.

  12. xtreem3d

    xtreem3d PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,547

    were they opposed to laying down the mats and then shoveling/salting them? i know you mentioned no sand being tracked in
  13. powerjoke

    powerjoke PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,341

    i know that salt ain't good on concrete but we just built a $10k salt bin this year out of concrete and i couldn't wait 18 months to load it so this winter we'll reload it at least one more time i'll take pictures of the floor and walls andpost them, for my sake i hope you all are wrong:cry: LOL
  14. xtreem3d

    xtreem3d PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,547

    my salt bin is made out the huge concrete blocks made to stack....the salt definitely starts to eat away at them ....my bottom is asphalt
  15. Clapper&Company

    Clapper&Company PlowSite Veteran
    from NE OHIO
    Messages: 4,413

    Use a Power broom to clean them off, where u willnt need to salt them
  16. forestfireguy

    forestfireguy PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,276

    Could you use nc3000, it is sodium and chloride free?????
  17. JD Dave

    JD Dave PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 11,034

    When we built are salt bin we layed a 34x50 cement pad and 1 week later we put 3 rows of mafia block up and the put a Coverall on top. It was only up for 2 weeks and then we filled it with salt. Except for one large crack the concrete is fine. What everybody has to understand is, it's the freeze and thaw cycle that's hard on concrete, not salt. We did a large mall with new concrete and we used salt. We just made sure we always plowed the snow instead of trying to melt an inch and then put a light coating of salt on. JMO
  18. LON

    LON Senior Member
    Messages: 749

  19. bribrius

    bribrius PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,609

    Chemicals Used to Melt Ice

    Name Formula Lowest Practical Temp Pros Cons

    Ammonium sulfate (NH4)2SO4 -7°C
    (20°F) Fertilizer Damages concrete

    Calcium chloride CaCl2 -29°C
    (-20°F) Melts ice faster than sodium chloride Attracts moisture, surfaces slippery below -18°C (0°F)

    Calcium magnesium acetate (CMA) Calcium carbonate CaCO3, magnesium carbonate MgCO3, and acetic acid CH3COOH -9°C
    (15°F) Safest for concrete & vegetation Works better to prevent re-icing than as ice remover

    Magnesium chloride MgCl2 -15°C
    (5°F) Melts ice faster than sodium chloride Attracts moisture

    Potassium acetate CH3COOK -9°C
    (15°F) Biodegradable Corrosive

    Potassium chloride KCl -7°C
    (20°F) Fertilizer Damages concrete

    Sodium chloride (rock salt, halite) NaCl -9°C
    (15°F) Keeps sidewalks dry Corrosive, damages concrete & vegetation
    Urea NH2CONH2 -7°C
    (20°F) Fertilizer Agricultural grade is corrosive
  20. RYDER

    RYDER Senior Member
    Messages: 281

    You might check out Syntech chem. NC-3000. That is what I use at a strip mall that I plow at.