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New truck selection help

Discussion in 'Commercial Snow Removal' started by ratlover, Sep 29, 2003.

  1. ratlover

    ratlover PlowSite.com Addict
    from IL
    Messages: 1,325

    I'm really puzzled here. Doing a bit of research for a new deisel truck. Chevy has a front axle rating of 4800# and ford and dodge have a rating of 5200#. Ok I understand that. What I dont understand is why Chevy can cary more of a plow up front??? The Duramax might weigh less but it has to make up 400# just to get to an even playing field of the SFA axeled Dodge and Ford. Am I missing something???

    Only 2 real requirements are that the vehicle be a deisel and it carry a V-blade. Extra passenger room(SUV, ext cab, crew) and as loaded option wise are a plus but would be and will be dropped for the ability to work and carry a blade. Manuvarability is also a factor(crew cab long box is not prefered or are dual rears) SUV would be a posibility if they really made a HD SUV.

    It is looking like a Chevy 2500HD or SRW 3500HD or a Ford F350 SRW?

    A chevy would get a Fisher and a Ford might get a Boss trip edge or a Fisher.

    Am I missing something? This is all based off of fishers guide. I'm still kinda puzzled???

    TIA :nod:
     
  2. igor176

    igor176 Junior Member
    Messages: 7

    go with the ford my father inlaw has had nothing but trouble with his extended cab short box 2500hd with the duramax and he only has an 8' straight blade western . 1 plow season, sagging front end had to have it leveled in the front and realigned, and the tires are completly shot, were new when the blade went on. and thats just some of the plow issues, I won't go in to all the other problems with the truck. Ford and Dodge are both better built and longer lasting trucks, I'm not bashing chevy and I certainly don't want to start anything its just my own personal opinion and experiences.

    Eric.
     
  3. wxmn6

    wxmn6 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,037

    igor176 - I don't khow how your father-in-law handle his truck when plowing... but most of time when something break, it usually is the driver's abuse. But still, some stuff like that could happen even if you are being careful.

    There is no doubt that when you have a diesel on your truck and you install a snowplow to it, the front end will reach near its maximum limit. The front end would sag some because of that, and that is why he would need to crank up the torsion bars to level the truck, and get the wheels realigned because of change in aligment after changing in ride height. Doing so would reduce tires uneven wear and extends its life.

    Adding a set of Timbrens would definitely be very helpful with front end sag problem. If your father-in-law has not done so, he should consider getting a set and try them out. It should make a difference.

    Another note ... was the tires set up to its maximum (80 PSI on factory tires)? If not, then that may explain why it is not handling very well, and cause excessive wear on tires.

    Hope that this would help.
     
  4. wyldman

    wyldman Member
    Messages: 3,265

    If you want a diesel,and a strong front end,there is only one choice right now.The solid front axle amd the Cummins make the Dodge the ultimate plow truck.

    A Ford would be my second choice,but I'd run and hide from the 6.0 L right now.
     
  5. ratlover

    ratlover PlowSite.com Addict
    from IL
    Messages: 1,325

    I'm mostly puzzled with the fact that fisher consistently rates a bigger plow on a lower capacity IFS chevy??? :confused:

    Correct me if I am wrong.

    Ford and dodge have a 5200# rating for the 3/4 ton and 1 tons

    Chevy has a 4800# rating for thier 1 tons. (chevy dosnt offer the duramax in thier 3/4 tons just the 2500HD's and 3500's)

    Even if Chevy is lighter it cant be that much so? What gives? This is all off of Fishers selection guide Boss's is kinda a PITA to use. This is what I have a question about. I'm just confused as to why fisher says you cant put a bigger plow on the dodge and fords???

    This isnt a who make the best truck kinda debate. I'm just currious about what plows are supposed to be able to go on them. After I figure out what plows are suposed to fit I will look into what plows will work even if they are "too big" I just wana figure out this before I get into the I had a _____ with a _____plow on it and it has worked fine for yadayadayada.

    Figuring out the more objective stuff will come next.

    And ext cab puts alot of weight on the nose......was he running proper balast?

    And on a side note: My plow for my Duramax should be in by this weekend! Happy Dance time! :bluebounc
     
  6. ratlover

    ratlover PlowSite.com Addict
    from IL
    Messages: 1,325

    This truck will probably be bought around the first or so. Hopefully Ford will have figured out thier 6.0's other wise the list will be much shorter.

    It would have been a much tougher decision for me when I bought my 03 2500HD duramax if Ford would have kept the 7.3 as an option. Oh well
     
  7. wyldman

    wyldman Member
    Messages: 3,265

    The selection guides are sometimes way off base.You could plow with any of the trucks,and not be over the FAWR,as long as it's not overloaded,and you run the correct amount of ballast.

    I remember when I bought my truck,the dealer stated you can only use a max 7.5 ft LD blade or the warranty is void.I said,OK whatever,and mounted my 9 ft Pro Plow anyways.I took pictures of it on the scale with the blade on,and still came in under the 4850 FAWR.Truck carries it no problem for the last 400,000 K.

    I don't think you can go wrong with any of the trucks,so just pick what you like.
     
  8. ratlover

    ratlover PlowSite.com Addict
    from IL
    Messages: 1,325

    ahhh....thats kinda what I was wondering. I just didnt know if there was a reason for fishers seeming ultra conservative view on the more HD front end of the Ford and dodge

    I guess if they wana make a sale they will let me steal a truck and take it to a scale. Pretty easy to do some math and see what will fit I guess.

    Why couldnt we design a truck? I think a Chevy with a SFA and a Cummins would be prett sweet. And we could use a Ford.....hmmm....what could we use from ford? :p J/K
     
  9. Brian Simmons

    Brian Simmons PlowSite.com - Sponsor
    Messages: 196

    Ratlover,
    Have to take into consideration the weight of the truck. This sample uses a 2003 GM2500HD reg cab 8' bed with the 6.0L. The front end weighs 3106lbs. The F250 reg cab 8' bed with the 5.4 weighs 3450lbs. Subtract this from the FGAWR and you are allowed to use 62% of whats left. Obviously almost all plow will exceed the weight. This is where ballast comes into play. You have to remember that these trucks have different wheelbases. The distance from the center of the axle to where the center of gravity of the plow will be different for each manufacturer. Also we will not exceed 1000lbs of ballast for any truck and 300lbs for a SUV. So if it takes more than 1000lbs of ballast to get within the 62% it is not an application. Also need to remember that different plows hang of the front end further than others. There are also other factors that are used but these are the major points. Hope this helps clarify.

    Brian
     
  10. wyldman

    wyldman Member
    Messages: 3,265

    The Ford had nice mirrors. :D
     
  11. Terrasnow

    Terrasnow Junior Member
    from NY
    Messages: 18

    WYLDMAN: You stated "...Ford would be my second choice,but I'd run and hide from the 6.0 L right now."

    Why do you say that? I ask because I have narrowed my new truck thinking to a 2004 Chev 2500HD CC, 4.10, 4x4 with a 6.0L.
     
  12. ratlover

    ratlover PlowSite.com Addict
    from IL
    Messages: 1,325

    They still seem to ba having issues with the Ford 6.0 Deisel The chevy 6.0's are pretty good IMO with the only real major occuring problems being piston slap.

    One thing to consider. People are getting the same or close to it milage with the 8.1 as the 6.0. If fearing the 8.1 because of milage isnt the case then its a non issue for you though.

    I do like how they have the little convex ones built in.
     
  13. wyldman

    wyldman Member
    Messages: 3,265

    I was reffering to the new 6.0L Ford diesel,not the GM 6.0 L.The GM 6.0L is an OK motor.
     
  14. igor176

    igor176 Junior Member
    Messages: 7

    IFS belongs on cars not trucks!
     
  15. Mike 97 SS

    Mike 97 SS Banned
    from U.S.A.
    Messages: 1,106

    Igor, I tend to disagree. Crank up the torsion bars on a Chevy somewhat and add a set of Timbrens and a Chevy can handle a plow just as good as a Ford or Dodge. Ray posted pictures of his brand new 2500HD Chevy with the plow on, in the pictures forum and his truck stays up pretty much perfectly level with the plow raised. Yes he has Timbrens in it also. Alot of people think that the Chevy frontend is weak because it is not a solid axle. This isnt the case. My frontend in my truck is all original with the exception of the Idler Arm being replace a few times over the years and the Pitman Arm once. Everything else is 100% original. For some reason Chevys knock out Idler Arms, everything else holds up. I also have read it here too about the IFS not wearng out parts as bad as some would think. Mike
     
  16. igor176

    igor176 Junior Member
    Messages: 7

    Glad to hear you have good luck with IFS I don't want to start any ford chevy or dodge war I'll suggest timbrens to him I have them in my F350 I just think solid axles are less expensive to repair/maintain
     
  17. JustUsDe

    JustUsDe Senior Member
    Messages: 181


    Great set-up!! Check out my pictures of my 2003 2500hd, 4x4 with a 6.0. Pictures are in the Pictures forum. The truck only dropped an inch with the plow up. I have Timbrens. I did not touch the torsion bars.

    Ray
     
  18. Terrasnow

    Terrasnow Junior Member
    from NY
    Messages: 18

    Thanks, guys.

    Regarding the 8.1L... Chevy doesn't put a snow plow package on a Crew Cab with the 8.1L gasser or the diesal. Only the 6.0L. I drove a std cab truck with the 8.1L and I thought it was pretty nice on the power side. Some people state they get better mileage with the 8.1L with 3.73 axle ratio than with the 6.0L with the 4.10. Of course, their is about a $2K cost difference in the need to go to the Allison tranny with the 8.1L. I don't know what problems exist with that tranny, but some people have had some.

    Regarding the Independent Front Suspension (IFS)... my current truck is a 1991 Chevy K1500 Extended Cab with 5.7L and 3.73. I cranked up the torsion bars and put in Timbrens. The truck doesn't even care that my 7.5' Standard Duty Western Ultramount plow is hanging out there. In fact, sitting still, the Timbrens just hang there and don't touch anything. I imagine when I hit bumps driving that they share some of the load. Yes, it's a little closer to the snow than the Fords and Dodges, but still very functional. Idler arms are cheap, easy to install, and have a lifetime warranty from many stores. We all have worse problems.

    Anyway, only rust makes me want a new truck. 16-17 MPG in the summer with a mix of city and highway driving. That is AWESOME when you compare it to what today's plow sportin' gassers (gotta get the 3/4 ton now or the big 3 worry you might hurt your $30k+ investment) get. 12, 13, maybe 15 mpg on the Ford. What happended to fuel economy? I have a '92 GMC K1500 with 140,000 miles on it, 5.7L, 3.73 gears and I consistently get 17+ miles to the gallon. And it doesn't care if I throw a plow on it.

    These truck manufacturers have us over a barrel.
     
  19. wyldman

    wyldman Member
    Messages: 3,265

    The mileage sure does suck on most of the newer trucks.The mfg's have it all backwards when they design these things.They make these dirty gas sucking motors,and then add all these electronics and emission crap to get them to pass the ever tightening emission standards.All that does is rob more power and fuel economy,and raise the truck prices.All the fancy and frilly option add weight and kill economy as well.
     
  20. peewee

    peewee Member
    Messages: 44

    I sold my gm 6.0 2500hd. It was am okay truck. What I ended up getting was a new dodge diesel quad cab. several reasons have already been posted. a main reason was the wheelbase. The gm with any extended cab configuration was way too long to be turning around as muchas you do plowing. The dodge has the same wheelbase as a standard cab truck but gives you four doors and a nice truck for all the rest of the time you're not plowing.