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new to sidewalk guy

Discussion in 'Introduce Yourself to the Community' started by trqjnky, Nov 12, 2009.

  1. trqjnky

    trqjnky Senior Member
    Messages: 620

    i did a search but really didnt get anything figured out. anyways, ive had a church and some residential accounts ask me to do sidewalks. but i have no idea how to price them. the church has 175 feet of sidewalk. ill be using a snowblower. how much should i charge to do the sidewalks?

    and what about salt if they ask?
     
  2. F350plowing

    F350plowing Senior Member
    Messages: 481

    do not use the same salt as you use in the lot on the walks it will wreck the concrete
     
  3. trqjnky

    trqjnky Senior Member
    Messages: 620

    what salt dou you use on walks? im thinking adding 10 for residential sidewalks and 20 for commercial account sidewalks.
     
  4. F350plowing

    F350plowing Senior Member
    Messages: 481

  5. I'llPLOWYou

    I'llPLOWYou Member
    Messages: 62

    You can also use a product called Thawmaster or Magnesium Chloride. Thawmaster has salt in it but it is a blended product so it wont have the refreeze issues that cause the sidewalks to crack. The straight Mag is great stuff too. It is a little more expensive but you use less to get the same melt.
     
  6. cretebaby

    cretebaby PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 4,162

    How does it do that?
     
  7. Mark Oomkes

    Mark Oomkes PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 10,868

    Still spewing inaccurate BS.

    Ever going to answer my questions in the other thread?
     
  8. hairygary

    hairygary Senior Member
    Messages: 149

    You can use regular rock salt on walks and it wont cause any damage, I use a blended product, which are usually a blend of rock salt and either calcium chloride or magnesium chloride. Blended products will melt a little faster than straight salt and leave your walks looking nice. Some people use straight calcium chloride on walks as it is ever faster acting, but the price is often twice of that of a blended product. Make sure sure your salt spreader has deflectors on it or you will be wasting alot of product on the grass and landscaping that should be directed on the sidewalks.
     
  9. jimspro

    jimspro Senior Member
    Messages: 200

    hairyguy, how can you say regular rock salt won't cause sidewalks any damage? i think you are mis -informed
     
  10. cretebaby

    cretebaby PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 4,162

    Please inform us.
     
  11. hairygary

    hairygary Senior Member
    Messages: 149

    I think you were misinformed, provide some date to back up your claim, but here is whats real.
    Concrete is not damaged by contact with ice melt products. Chemically, the products don’t interact with the concrete. But damage can be caused by the freeze thaw cycle that takes place. This is especially true if the liquid brine gets into the cracks in the concrete. As the ice melt product interacts with the snow and ice it forms a brine solution. The brine lowers the freezing point of water and effectively dissolves (melts) the ice and snow on contact until it becomes diluted. The brine solution can penetrate the pores of the concrete. As this solution freezes and thaws the expansion and contraction of the concrete pores results in spalling or surface deterioration. Water by itself can penetrate the pores and cause the same reaction. So Jim in summary, any chemical will have the same effect on concrete they just dont melt at the same speed or temperature. Now just dont damage concrete by avoiding use of ice melt products on exposed aggregate, brick masonary, unsealed asphalt and concrete less than one year old.
     
  12. cretebaby

    cretebaby PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 4,162

    I doubt it Mark. :realmad:

    ( I don't think he knows the answers :eek:)
     
  13. I'llPLOWYou

    I'llPLOWYou Member
    Messages: 62

    The reason salt can cause cracking is discussed above crete. The freeze thaw cycles create the cracking. The reason salt is most likely to create this problem is because the freezing point of straight sodium chloride is higher than a Mag/Calcium/Potassium chloride product. A blended product(Thaw Master for example) has a very high percentage of sodium chloride in the bag but with the other melting agents the freezing point is much lower thus you do not have the freeze thaw taking place.
    Sodium chloride will not create cracking because of its chemical composition it is beacuse of the freezing point of NaCl as a chemical compound. It could actually occur with any product if the temperature got down below the freezing point of that product.
     
  14. cretebaby

    cretebaby PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 4,162

  15. jomama45

    jomama45 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,172

    Crete, I say guys like you & I just sit back & take it all in. The more damage ignorance towards de-icing chems causes, the better off we become financially. It's merely job security!
     
  16. jimspro

    jimspro Senior Member
    Messages: 200

    you know i get the chemestry aspect of it, but the bottom line is using reg salt on concrete vs using a calcium chloride or other ice melter,may have damage when all is said and done. i have used both and give my customer the choice
     
  17. Mark Oomkes

    Mark Oomkes PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 10,868

    I know the mods don't like it when I do this, but you're an idiot.
     
  18. cretebaby

    cretebaby PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 4,162

    Sometime it just needs to be said. ;)
     
  19. Mark Oomkes

    Mark Oomkes PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 10,868

    What the heck does the bold-faced type mean?

    Let's try this again.

    It's 25* F. You have cleared the snow off the walk and apply mag or calcium--take your pic--and it starts snowing 1 hour later.

    What happens to the treated walk?

    If you want, I'll give you a hint. Let me know.
     
  20. wdcs1

    wdcs1 Member
    Messages: 74

    I don not salt sidewalks but love the guys around here that do. I run a concrete restoration company in the summer months. All that ice melter really makes for good business re paring all the spawling on the concrete.