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Need some help on a Unimount 8'6" Pro-Plow

Discussion in 'Western Plows Discussion' started by weareweird69, Dec 11, 2010.

  1. weareweird69

    weareweird69 Senior Member
    Messages: 924

    I picked up a new to me plow today. From the owners mouth.

    He bought a 96 F350 with the plow on it, that previous owner had used the plow for two seasons, and the guy that purchased the truck, removed the plow, and it sat for 2-3 years I believe.

    I purchased the plow, and brought it home. Its missing the foot for the plow, and two skids. I beleive its missing the lower parts of the mount too now that I look at it.

    The gussets for the bottom,

    Western Part Numbers:
    61806 or 61803
    61807 or 61804

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]


    The problem we found with it, is....

    We wired it up to make sure it all worked, the joystick control, and the pump functions.

    It will angle TO the left perfectly fine, but struggles to angle TO the right, we helped it, and it seemed to improve its ability to angle right, but it seems like its still struggling a little.

    Now the plow sat angled LEFT for god knows how long, and by the amount of paint missing, and surface rust, you can tell it sat.

    But, anyway I can check the valves? or Solenoids? Or Make it work right? Opinions, Options, help? :mechanic:

    I know its getting power, because the pump cycles, and its not dieing out, or cutting out, it just seems like its not pumping? Like the valve isnt opening fully to allow pressure to it?

    Its not leaking any fluid, and it is full, but I think its time for a flush, Ill be doing that as well.

    Im used to my old cable actuated plow, where if it isnt moving, its time to adjust some cables, this obviously, doesnt have cables!

    So, any help is appreciated for my n00b self!

    thanks!
     
  2. twinman326

    twinman326 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,683

    If it sat that long I would do a complete oil change, and check the suction fluid.

    If you don't know how to change, here is a link. Look at post #3
    http://www.plowsite.com/showthread.php?t=112180

    As for turning hard left, there is a "gland" nut and a seal. You might have to loosen it up a little. Before you do that, I would wipe some tranny fluid on the shaft, and try turning if left again after you do the whole fluid change. Just follow the direction on that post..Then take it from there..Make sure you check and clean the "suction" filter before you add new fluid..

    As for the plow, look like your just missing the plow shoes.. Do you have the correct mount for the truck??
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2010
  3. weareweird69

    weareweird69 Senior Member
    Messages: 924

    I have the correct mount for the plow, to my truck, the plow came off a 96, and is going back onto a 96, strangely enough.

    [​IMG]

    Also got the complete truck side wiring.

    [​IMG]

    I will change the fluid, and the suction fluid... I never heard of that, but I will look into post #3 and try and do that tomorrow, Id like to get it on the truck tomorrow, and see how it actually works.

    What is this gland nut? And what is nice, is that the PO put grease on the cylinders that were exposed (Just one) so that they didnt pit up, thankfully.

    Any other tips I should know about? I thought about pulling the S3 valve and cleaning it out, or at least checking it, since it deals with angling right. Am I correct? I glanced at the valving arrangement, but im still learning here.
     
  4. timberjack

    timberjack Member
    Messages: 96

    There's an excellent download on the Western website, a "Mechanics guide" that i found very helpful when ever i had to troubleshoot anything on my previous unimount, or ultramount.

    This should be the one for your plow
    http://library.westernplows.com/doc...evel=1&filename=21936_120198.pdf&doctype=.pdf

    That cutting edge looks pretty worn down too, but maybe that's just me. New one should have been 6", but then maybe still plenty of room to wear. Looks like yours isn't to the bolts yet, but by that time, it might be too late. Compare to the moldboard, and see if there's much room left for wearing on the cutting edge, and not the board.
     
  5. timberjack

    timberjack Member
    Messages: 96

    Just saw your next set of pics. Looks like you still have some room for wear on that cutting edge, but will be needing one soon. That must have been 2 good seasons of work it did.
     
  6. twinman326

    twinman326 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,683

    Sorry, my bad.It the packing nut..

    Here is a pic for the packing nut
    packing.jpg

    Here is a test for the valve. Check the passage (were s3 came out of) and make sure nothing inside there.
    test AA  cart.jpg


    Also you might want to check the pivot bolt to see if there is a lot of wear.There are know to crack the "A"frame, and wobble the hole in the "quadrant"

    Here is a pic of the pivot bolt
    pivot bolt.jpg

    Also check the bolts that go through the angeling rams..Look a little rusty..That plow must of sat out in the rain for a long time..
    let us know what happens.

    packing.jpg

    test AA  cart.jpg

    pivot bolt.jpg
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2010
  7. weareweird69

    weareweird69 Senior Member
    Messages: 924

    Twin, ive been lurking around here a while, and it seems you have all the answers, and links, and photos!

    hm, wonder if its just a bad connection on the coil... But Im going to tear into the valves tomorrow and see what I have there...

    I think that the valve may just be dirty, because looking at the fluid that came out of the pump, I checked it, it doesnt look to happy.

    The 8'6" blade has a SLIGHT wobble in the blade, but nothing too major, it looks pretty good on the whole A-frame, and the angle cylinders seem to be fairly tight on the A-frame as well. Those are things I already know to check, as my 7'6" has those issues on it.

    But my 7.6" western has definately got the A-frame wobble. Plow has gone thru hell though, I bought it used as well, and it was beat when I bought it.


    As for the plow condition, I do believe it sat outside a few years... I bought it for 1400, which was a little more money than what I wanted to spend, but it was everything I needed, and for my truck. If I got it home, and it all worked, I was going to be estatic. This little bit of maintaining everything, and getting it to par wont be too much of a hassle with a little bit of good insight.

    Timberjack, The cutting edge on the passenger side of the truck is worn more than the drivers, I am led to believe that he pushed a lot of the snow off to one side. The drivers side of the edge has about 1/4" more material. I dont do a whole lot of plowing, so I wont be needing to replace the cutting edge, but Once it starts getting worn down, I will replace it, and possibly reinforce the base of the moldboard a little. Its seen a fair amount of rust down on the bottom.


    So, what your saying to do, is loosen the packing nut on the passenger side cylinder OR the lift arm and see if im getting fluid to it as im turning it with the hydraulics? Basically, bleeding the system?

    Also to check and make sure the valves are working correctly, specifically S3...

    The suction filter requires removal of the pump correct? Is the gasket re-useable, or may I use RTV to re-seal it?

    Also, I read in the manual on Western's site, that Mercon III can be used as a fluid. Is that true?


    Sorry for all the dumb questions, but I want to make sure I do this right, instead of making a 1400 dollar mistake...
     
  8. weareweird69

    weareweird69 Senior Member
    Messages: 924

    Okay, im confused now.

    The valves are all getting power. S2 gets power when I angle right, s3 gets power when I angle left.


    But it still wont angle to the right. I pulled both S2 and S3 valves and made sure they moved, and cleaned them as well. No dirt in the passageways either.

    I ohmed the coils, and came back with ~6.7 on each one.

    Could the poppet valve be the culprit?
     
  9. twinman326

    twinman326 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,683

    Or the packing in the ram might be bad..I had the same problem just like your, but mine was a little different..


    This was my problem, the plunger. It was broken onside the ram housing. I end up changing the "packing set", and the plunger. I am not saying you have the same problem.
    Here is a pic. look in the red
    plunger ram.jpg

    Read this. Then read the one with the red "X"
    poppyvalve.jpg

    Angle right
    angle r.jpg

    trouble shooting
    trshooting.jpg

    You also might want to check the harness between the "vehicle" n the "plow" side..Make sure those pins are nice and clean. Also make sure they are making good contact.. When the harness are plug in, wobble them around, sometimes you will find out a wire might be on it way out..One minute it will make full contact, and the next you don't have contact..Check the wires at the "S" valves. Make sure they are not crack, fit snug, especially the ground wire..I had a problem, one minute my plow would angle to the left, the when i move the controller to the left again, it would not move..The problem was my connector from the controller to the harness inside the vehicle. The pins was not making full contact. I found that out by holding the controller to the left, and shook my controller harness.. It call trial and error...

    A lot of people on here who have a complaint about their plows don't give enough information, like what kind of plow. Is it cable. Relay, or mod. 4port, or 3 port. 9pin or 12 pin harness. People like me and the ones I mention, have to figure out what they are talking and at the same time give them clues to look for, or figure it out for them..

    Therefore, no I am not the smarter person, there are others like, Repo,Nasty,B&B, Crash95. They might be smarter...Trust me in the past, most likely the persons I mention we may have clash in information we have given out.. But we have learn to respect each other. I know when I am wrong, I will give one of these guy I mention the respect, and apologize. If I can not resolve, I will Pm one of these guys, to jump into the thread (if they are not already involve) and give a helping hand to get that person who has the problem back on the road so that person can make his money...

    plunger ram.jpg

    poppyvalve.jpg

    trshooting.jpg

    angle r.jpg
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2010
  10. weareweird69

    weareweird69 Senior Member
    Messages: 924

    Thank you for all your help so far...

    I did a complete flush of the system, and cleaned the suction filter.

    I believe my problem lies either in the ram, OR in the valve body somewhere. Im going to go back out and tinker with it some more. But so far Im still in the same place.

    I checked all the wires on the S valves, and in the controller to make sure I was getting contact, power, and making sure every valve lit up correctly. Its all working correctly. So its got to be in the hydraulics somewhere. Stupid gremlins.

    Im kinda dumb with plows yet, as ive only had two, and this is my second one, but my first fully electric. I dont really understand the "types" of plows you listed, so I cant really give you the full information.

    Im going to go make sure the valve releif's and poppets are clean and clear, it seems like one of them is sticking to me. But we will see
     
  11. weareweird69

    weareweird69 Senior Member
    Messages: 924

    now im REALLY confused.

    It will angle to the right now, but not the left...

    And I think my relay died :(

    I pulled out the crossover releif valve assembly, and all that was in there was a spring, a cap, and the valve itself. According to the schematic, it looks like its supposed to have a ball and washers?

    But, its all new fluid, AND I have the plow sitting face down now (not while I was testing it!) and I can move the A-frame (angling the blade right) without any power to the pump, I know i should NOT be able to do that...

    Its got to be something in the valve body, and the associated valves.

    Im running out of ideas, and steam...
     
  12. weareweird69

    weareweird69 Senior Member
    Messages: 924

    Okay, so I dont have that little ball pictured in the crossover relief valve assembly... So I picked up a Western Repair kit, that comes with two of those assemblies.

    Picture in Post #6
    http://www.plowsite.com/showpost.php?p=1149035&postcount=6

    Im going to replace them both, and see if that helps... Ive ruled out the packing being bad in the cylinders because of the fact that it angles the other way now. I beleive im following crap in the valve manifold.

    I also found some air in the drivers side angle ram, So i think, getting that out helped.

    Any other opinions? Im open for advice!

    Ive also been re-reading the above posts from Twin, and I didnt pull the one check valve out, I think that could be an issue im having as well. I really dont want to cart this thing to a dealer to be fixed, im mechanically inclined, and ive fixed worse things before.
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2010
  13. twinman326

    twinman326 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,683

    I already know what kind of plow you have. It is a "western pro". I have the same one. Sure you didn't remove the "inlet"? That should have a spring, ball and a hex screw?? Why would you pull the cross over?

    Here are two pdf files links..U need to download them..They might help..

    This is "mechanical guide
    http://library.westernplows.com/pdf/21936_120198.pdf

    Mechanical guide and owners manual
    http://library.westernplows.com/pdf/13523_080092.pdf

    Think back to re-trace your steps, and figure out what you did to have it go right, and now not left..

    Something might of happen to the "poppet check valve.
    When you down load the mechanical guide look on page 50..
     
  14. twinman326

    twinman326 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,683

    I already know what kind of plow you have. It is a "western pro". I have the same one. Sure you didn't remove the "inlet"? That should have a spring, ball and a hex screw?? Why would you pull the cross over?

    Here are two pdf files links..U need to download them..They might help..

    This is "mechanical guide
    http://library.westernplows.com/pdf/21936_120198.pdf

    Mechanical guide and owners manual
    http://library.westernplows.com/pdf/13523_080092.pdf

    Think back to re-trace your steps, and figure out what you did to have it go right, and now not left..

    Something might of happen to the "poppet check valve.
    When you down load the mechanical guide look on page 50..
     
  15. twinman326

    twinman326 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,683

    that weird it posted twice.

    Your doing fine.You just over look something.. I would re-check the cross over and make sure you didn't jam nothing inside the channel..Make sure nothing is in there blocking the passage way..
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2010
  16. weareweird69

    weareweird69 Senior Member
    Messages: 924

    The valve on the S1-2-3 side of the manifold is the valve without the little ball... Im going to tear each valve out this week and clean and check them, specifically the poppet.

    if you look on page 38 of the owners manual, you will see the ball im talking about. and it was a straight screwdriver head, not a hex head.

    I pulled the crossover, cause it seemed like it was wanting to push both cylinders at the same time... but im to the point where im going to pull each one, one at a time, and check it after each valve.

    Starting with replacing that stupid ball that is MIA, then the poppet check valve.

    Until that stupid ball gets here, im stuck. Ill get the frame mounted on the truck, and the wiring in. It should make life easier.

    But yes, I think I missed something. I know that when I actuate it to the one side, I get fluid flow from BOTH hoses off the motor, I know this cause when I was flushing one line at a time, I was only expecting one flow, and got two, making a nice mess on the floor. So something has got to be sticking somewhere. I wish I understood these pumps a lot more.
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2010
  17. twinman326

    twinman326 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,683

    I never saw a "ball" in the S2, or S3 (actually they are 2way,3way,and 4way coils) passage..The "S" vales when tested should show a movement (see page 36) If there is movement there is nothing wrong with the valve.. Also check the valve to see if magnetize. Use a screw driver, and have someone move the controller to the right. If it doesn't magnetize, then the coil could be bad.Check the ground wires connected to each coil. Make sure the wires don't have cracks in them..

    The correct way to flush out the rams, is to take the lines off the pump, and turn the plow to the left, wait a couple of seconds, then turn it to the right. When your fill up the pump, to get the air out, you turn the plow to the right, wait 60 seconds, then turn the plow to the left. Wait 60 seconds then straighten out the plow. This all must be done by hand.. Check the fluid level to make sure there is correct fluid height in the pump.
     
  18. weareweird69

    weareweird69 Senior Member
    Messages: 924

    Im not talking about the S valves, im talking about the crossover valve thats between the S2 and S1 valve, the crossover relief valve. Hopefully ill have some time tomorrow after work to try some more stuff. I know it will be something stupid thats wrong, that I should have noticed in the first place :dizzy:

    This Valve:
    [​IMG]

    I removed the lines off the pump, and them off the a-frame and compressed them manually, then extended them manually with the line in a container of clean fluid, it seemed to have worked well... I wanted to make sure I got all of the old fluid out of them, and the lines. It was nearly all black.

    I did pull the S2 and S3 valves, and they moved freely, with no visible signs of contamination, and nothing blocking the passageways. Which led me to believe that there was something wrong with the crossovers, or poppet valve.

    Is fluid supposed to come from both outlets (to left, and to right) on the pump when angling? Because, Mine is doing that...

    But I will re-check the coils, and the wires tomorrow, and make sure that they are magnetizing.

    Until then, anything else I can look at, or maybe want to try?

    Once again, I appreciate all the help, id have a big paperweight without you all...


    I also need to pick up a new Relay... I do believe mine crapped the bed on me since i have NO pump movement at all. I wiggled the plugs, checked and made sure all the connections were good and not corroded. When I jump power across the relay, the pump will run. SO I gotta get one of those now. I may stop and pick one up on my way home from work tomorrow IF they are open.
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2010
  19. weareweird69

    weareweird69 Senior Member
    Messages: 924

    picked up a new solenoid today, but too beat to work on anything.

    :(
     
  20. twinman326

    twinman326 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,683

    """Is fluid supposed to come from both outlets (to left, and to right) on the pump when angling? Because, Mine is doing that... ""

    This might sound stupid, The lines are hook up to the block, and the rams?? If they are, then there should NOT be any fluid coming out from were the lines connect. The one thing I do know, Western does not recommend using thread tape.

    I would re-check were the lines go into the block, to make sure they are tight, and not strip. That can be your problem. The lines are not holding the pressure from the pump action.

    If you could, put a picture on here so we can see were it is leaking from...

    Are you sure the lines aren't leaking through the casing??
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2010