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need help positioning my pump

Discussion in 'Western Plows Discussion' started by birddseedd, Dec 17, 2011.

  1. birddseedd

    birddseedd PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 3,516

    Id like to get a little more lift out of my plow conventional western.. part of the reason is that my plow, where it sits, is facing forward. that alone isnt set up correctly.

    these are the main things i need to know.

    1. in float the pump should be level? tilted forward but only slightly?
    2. the "lift arm" (hooked to the chain) should be how long?
    3. where should the lift arm be positioned in reference to where the chain hooks to the plow? perfectly above it, slightly behind it?
    4. anything else i need to know?

    thanks
     
  2. birddseedd

    birddseedd PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 3,516

    my lift arm as i call it, i think is 12 inches long. however the plow attaches only 2 inches from the very end of it.
     
  3. B&B

    B&B PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 12,777

    If you're going to be doing these mods anyway, might be a good time to add down pressure while you at it.






    BTW, your thread title is a little scary. :laughing:
     
  4. 2COR517

    2COR517 PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 7,115

    If you draw a pic of your lift arm, lift piston, and A-frame, it should form a parallelogram with the pump located at the apex.
     
  5. birddseedd

    birddseedd PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 3,516

    not sure where or how i would go about doing it. need to see an example. tho i wanted to ask, or did ask dont remember, how much is too much pressure. sure western doesent have DP, but it has more weight. i dono if an extra 250 lbs would be benificial or detrimental, esspicialy when i can get a back blade. thinkin of goin the hinge blade route.





    giggles
     
  6. Philbilly2

    Philbilly2 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,638

    B&B... seriously???
     
  7. basher

    basher PlowSite Fanatic
    from 19707
    Messages: 8,992


    Do a search, this has been discussed before.
     
  8. Philbilly2

    Philbilly2 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,638

  9. birddseedd

    birddseedd PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 3,516

    please forgive my noobness, but, a parallelogram does not have an apex. the apex is the "peak". a parallelogram doesent have a peak such as a triangle or pentagon.

    :confused:
     
  10. birddseedd

    birddseedd PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 3,516

    ummm ...... eh?
     
  11. birddseedd

    birddseedd PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 3,516

    I drew up a couple crude images. now. they might not look right, remember i duct taped a meyer under carriage to a western plow. i was a newb

    the first one just shows the measurments

    the second one is drawn to scale perfectly within one a inch tolerance.

    i have another lift arm i can put on it. i can extend it out tward the plow another 6.5 inches.

    what do you think?

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2011
  12. birddseedd

    birddseedd PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 3,516

    ...... bump
     
  13. basher

    basher PlowSite Fanatic
    from 19707
    Messages: 8,992

    Have you heard of a lexicon also known as a dictionary? Dr S Johnson created the first one, Webster and others have been making them ever since. If you used one you would not be confused and would understand there is more then one meaning/use for many words in the English language. Your knowledge of the word apex is obviously limited so I offer you one source's definition of the word

    a·pex (pks)
    n. pl. a·pex·es or a·pi·ces (p-sz, p-)
    1. The highest point; the vertex: the apex of a triangle; the apex of a hill.
    2. The point of culmination. See Synonyms at summit.
    3. The usually pointed end of an object; the tip: the apex of a leaf.

    As you can see 2COR517 is correct in his use of the word.
     
  14. birddseedd

    birddseedd PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 3,516

    actually, no, he didn't. as a parallelogram does not have an apex.

    as far as your definitions, they all mean the same thing. highest point, summit, tip. all point to the same thing, which is NOT where you would put your pump even if it was possible as the actuator goes somewhere in the middle of the lift arm, not at the very tip.
     
  15. birddseedd

    birddseedd PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 3,516

    i ono. been thinking. i think a simple back blade will be more value and suffice than dp.

    im thinking of a hinge design
     
  16. basher

    basher PlowSite Fanatic
    from 19707
    Messages: 8,992

    Obviously I need to help you a little more.

    culmination (plural culminations)

    1.(astronomy) The attainment of the highest point of altitude reached by a heavenly body; passage across the meridian; transit.
    2.Attainment or arrival at the highest pitch of glory, power, etc.

    He was, in english you may understand, referring to the end of the pump's travel, the point that the piston is at full extension. As an aside, his description in no way matches your drawing.
     
  17. birddseedd

    birddseedd PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 3,516

    same meaning. top point.

    and his description of a parallelogram does not match my drawing, be cause his description does not match any plow design. in order for the lift arm and a frame to create a parallelogram the lift arm would have to extend beyond, or in front of the a frame.

    trapezium is the closest shape i can find. perhaps trapezoid if the lift frame should be perfectly centered within the a-frame THIS is what i am trying to find out.
     
  18. birddseedd

    birddseedd PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 3,516

    Shop guy did point one thing out to me however, my chain is not in the right place. its attached to the part of the frame that the blade is attached to and moves through the A frame while tilting the plow.

    it should be attached near the end of the a frame itself. moving the chain inward some will give me a little more lift.after that perhaps i will simply install my longer lift arm. that will shift the pump and arm tward the blade. i could cut it and make the lift arm perfectly centered. I dont know if that is how it should be or not, but it will give me more lift. worth a try i guess untill i can find some sure answers.
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2011
  19. basher

    basher PlowSite Fanatic
    from 19707
    Messages: 8,992

    Pictures of what you have would help. Your drawings are interesting but hydraulically unsound. Think of 2cor517's parallelogram.
     
  20. birddseedd

    birddseedd PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 3,516

    ill see if i caint get some today. but as far as a parallelogram goes, the back end of the lift arm cannot be behind the A frame as that is where the engine is. the only other way to form a parallelogram is to have the front of the lift arm extend beyond the A frame and be directly above the plow blade, to my knowledge the lift arm is not supposed to extend out that far,,,,, am i wrong in this fact?