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Need 2nd or 3rd opinion on push price 6.7 acres

Discussion in 'Bidding & Estimating' started by Northsnow, Sep 14, 2009.

  1. Northsnow

    Northsnow Member
    Messages: 42

    Hey all. I am second year company and bidding my largets property to date. Did a few medium commercial lots last season and was very pleased. This new property is a multi tennant property with 1 Home Depot as the anchor store. There is 291,317 sq feet of drives, loading docks, lot, and 2 drive thru aisles for fast food. Property is all owned by one realestate company. They want per push pricing. I am planning on using a skid and a 10' arctic box along with one truck for the tight spots. I figured total time to clear lot is around 2 hours, maybe three.

    I figured salt usage at 3.5 tons per application. I also figured shovel labor at 2.5 hours for one person for each clearing.

    Pricing with a 1" trigger durring store hours, lot must be clear by 5 am and no multiple billed pushes for overnight snowfalls. One salt application per push.

    Per push durring hours of operation every 1": 700.00
    overnight clearing 1" - 5": 800.00
    overnight clearing 5" - 10" 1200.00
    overnight clearing over 10" 1500.00

    Salt per application 550.00

    Shovel walks per push 220.00

    They owner said he had used a new company that was "cost efficient" last year and got screwed because they billed him like crazy per push overnight and took advantage of him left and right with multiple saltings overnight. I explained how my company may not be the cheapest on paper, but by seasons end, we will save him money and have the lot in a safe and clean condition at all times. Any thoughts on pricing or how else to really send the message home that we are the best company for his needs? He did mention that the Home Depot management is a bunch of cry-babies at every storm, luckily, my construction co. spends about 200-250 K a year at that store. I feel if I keep the tennants happy and the prop owner does not get calls from tennants, it will be a win win. Thank you all.
  2. swtiih

    swtiih PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,179

    Seems like length of time is on the low side which would increase your per plow price.
    Salting also seems on the low side for 300,000sq'.
    I am curious to what others think.
  3. LoneCowboy

    LoneCowboy PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,760

    a picture would be nice.
    without a picture or satellite view we're just guessing and I'm going to throw you some things to think about. I have no idea on what the sidewalks look like or salt.

    6.7 acres is about 3 hours with 2 pieces of equipment. That's 6 equipment hours.

    At 700 bucks, that means your per hour price is $116. Is that what you want?

    Big wide open lots can be painful with a lot of snow build up. You can't make those long efficient runs because you simply have too much snow at the end. You also run out of places to put the snow and you have to get it away from the building.

    Cart racks are a screaming pain.

    How do the islands look? Do you have places to stack snow? Hitting light poles while backing up is very bad. Clearing a lot before 5am is a lot different than clearing a big lot at noon. is there a lot of backdragging? how about clearing the loading docks in back? Think about flat tires. (HD sells nails, pallets come apart, big metal strips, etc). Most HD's I have seen have a big flat section up by the doors that will need to be shoveled, then you'll have to plow the shovel remains off somewhere. Skid steers are awesome in wide open lots, they are terrible when those lots are full of cars. (no vision to the rear)

    I don't know where you are at, what your pricing is, but I'm imagining our local HD which is probably about 6 acres of lot and I wouldn't do it for $700.

    other thoughts
    Be prepared to have to find someplace else to buy stuff for your construction company. Either they or you will certainly get annoyed at some point.

    How do you get the SS there? Do you leave it on site? You can't move a 10' box legally down the road unless it's sideways (not 10' wide), so do you have to put it together?

    how do you handle doing cleanup work during the day? where you are just shoveling and keeping the lanes open?

    Fast food places always have cars coming and going, from 6am to 10pm and they are never done well, so I expect they are cheap.
    Expect payment to be slow.
  4. Northsnow

    Northsnow Member
    Messages: 42

    so you think it will be more like 6 hours per push at 1" trigger? I am shooting for 125 per hour on a truck and 140 per hour with a skid. The equip will remain on site with the 10' box.

    I planned on keeping lanes open durring operations with the truck and moving larger amolunts of snow with the skid. The lot is pretty open as you can see from the attached photo. Just some tight spots on the outlots.

    So if I went 3 hours that would be around 850 per push.

    Change the salt to 650. per application

    What do you all think

    Thank you again

    pal depot2.jpg
  5. Snow Picasso

    Snow Picasso Senior Member
    Messages: 247

    I agree! To low on your estimated plow time & salt unless your planning on spreading it thin. You'll be in that lot a good 4.5 to 5 hrs with that equip!
  6. ColumbiaLand

    ColumbiaLand Senior Member
    Messages: 790

    you may want to consider getting a loader or renting a backhoe with at least 1 12' pusher, That is a large lot and I think might take longer than you think to clear with 1 pickup and a skid. I would not even consider bidding on this place unless I has a larger pusher. Looks like a good account, but don't get stranded with not enough machinery. It will kill you literally. if you get the account for several seasons in your contract the machine could be paid for in full after the first season if it goes well. good luck
  7. ford550

    ford550 Senior Member
    Messages: 407

    GOOD for you if you can get $125 for a truck and $140 for a skid. You are doing better than most of the plowing community.

    SIMA recommends 1000lbs to 1.5 ton per 100K of asphalt on salt.

    Two of my trucks do a 340,000sf Lowes in 2.5-3 hours full push of entire lot at 4" of snow. (But we charge per inch per storm anyway)

    Good luck.
  8. blowerman

    blowerman PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,261

    I'll agree with the other guys, your time seems a little low. In a 1-3" snow (and not wet) you may clear it with a truck and skiddy. Any large or wet snow over 4" and you can forget about your time estimates. A skiddy just doesn't have the ability to push very well over long distances with large amounts of snow. Seriously, think about a wheel loader with 12' or 14' pusher.
    Good luck.
  9. Northsnow

    Northsnow Member
    Messages: 42

    Thank you everyone. I don't want eveyone to think that I want someone else to bid the property for me. I feel this is a continous learning field for me, hence the reason I joined SIMA. I believe you are right with going with a largerr piece of equip, but was hoping to get away with the skid with a 1" trigger.

    This property is key for my company's growth this season and really want to get it. This property owner has 6 other properties that are smaller, but still nice properties. They basically told me, if I get this one, the rest will come like a package deal for this season.

    Another question. Has anyone offered a season discount if a client signs multiple properties for a multi year contract. I am talking with them about a discount for a two year contractt for all 7 properties. I was thinking 10 % but wonder if that is too much.

    I think I will submit final pricing as follows. Any further opinions will be greatly appreciated.

    Per push durring operating hours 950.00

    Overnight clearing 1 - 5 " 1250.00
    Ovenight clearing 5 - 10" 1600.00
    Overnight clearing 10" plus 1950.00

    Salt per application 675.00

    Shovel walks per push 275.00

    I figure with an average of 10 events and an average of 2 pushes per event, and that is on the low side, I will easily cover all equip expenses, the share of overhead, labor, salt, and any other direct costs and still make a reasonable profit. If we have a season like last year, it would be even bette. Plus, this is 1 peice of the puzzle, not the entire companys snow income.

    Thanks again everyone and happy bidding!
  10. Brant'sLawnCare

    Brant'sLawnCare PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,748

    I think your salt price is pretty cheap. You are figuring around $0.08 per lb. How much are you getting it for? I am getting it for around $0.04 per lb, and wouldn't want to spread it that cheap. Maybe I am the only one though. I just don't want you to lose money.