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MY new MVP plus came with ATF!!!!!!

Discussion in 'Western Plows Discussion' started by Grizzly290, Dec 19, 2007.

  1. Grizzly290

    Grizzly290 Junior Member
    Messages: 7

    I just bought a new MVP Plus about 2 weeks ago. Well it snows a few inches the other day, so I go out and plow my driveways. A couple days later I notice a couple red-pink spots in the snow in my driveway. I discover that one of the angle rams has a small leak. I only have the older Western fluid and its blue, not red. So I figure that the newer Western fluid is red and I dont want to mix the red and the blue. So I ask the dealer what type of fluid it is and they tell me ATF is all they use. I've read that you shouldn't use ATF in the newer Ultramounts.
    Should I drain it and replace it with the proper stuff? Can I wait until after the season? I really didn't expect to have to deal with this. I guess the dealer is just trying to save money at my expense. Any thoughts? Thanks.
     
  2. Lawnscape89

    Lawnscape89 Senior Member
    Messages: 213

    I really hope the dealer is NOT saving money at your expense. As I understand it, one of the reasons not to use ATF is the freezing of the fluid, among other things. I would do one of two things (maybe both), 1 - Contact other dealers (you can find a list on their website), 2- Call Western themselves, 3 - (I know I said two) - Check your owners / maintenance manual. It should specifically state what type of fluid should be used when replacing it during routine maintenance.

    If you find other dealers recommending against ATF, I would certainly notify Western, so you don't have future problems with your new purchase. And if "blue" fluid is required, I certainly wouldn't be paying for it or replacing it myself...make them do it!!

    Please come back and let us know what you find out.
     
  3. niederhauser la

    niederhauser la Member
    from Utah
    Messages: 79

    Thats all i use in my westerns is ATF. I can imagine that it would freeze. My dealer told me that the western fuild is the exact same.
     
  4. Burkartsplow

    Burkartsplow PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 3,245

    the atf eats away at rubber. it wont freeze, but it will disinagrate rubber components and cause leaks.
     
  5. niederhauser la

    niederhauser la Member
    from Utah
    Messages: 79

    I have never had a problem with it eating away at rubber. Why wouldnt it eat rubber transmission lines?
     
  6. joeco129

    joeco129 Senior Member
    Messages: 105

    I was just at my dealer today getting service and we were talking about fluids... This guy is an old timer, been doing plows forever. He said you can use ATF, but, put alcohol in with it to keep it from freezing.

    He said that is basically the difference.... The blue is treated with an alcohol based additive to prevent freezing... so save money... use ATF and some alcohol and your good to go... He added the alcohol after filling the system and moving the blade around to fill the rams.... he then put about .25 to .5/cup alcohol, topped the rest with ATF and that's it.

    good luck...
     
  7. shanta74

    shanta74 Member
    Messages: 72

    the atf wont do anything to rubber you can use it in power steering pumps and they are full of rubber seals and no one has had a problem.
     
  8. B&B

    B&B PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 12,777

    Here it is right out of the factory 07-08 Western dealer service bulletin sheet..... I know this is a long standing debate among plower's and at one time Western did approve the use of ATF in their plows (up until the very early Flo stat pump units came out) and they haven't recommended ATF for a long time now....the newer pumps aren't designed to run a thicker fluid like ATF, and it can cause problems in them...

    If I spent $5000 on a new plow and my dealer put ATF in it to save $15 I'd be highly upset.. as once you contaminate a fresh system with the incorrect fluid, it's much tougher to flush it out..rather than just using the correct fluid in the first place. I can't believe there's still dealers out there that use ATF in a brand new plow and think it's OK...

    Would you use trans fluid in a differential? Oil is oil right?...nope it's not..not anymore and it hasen't been for a good while...
     

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  9. iflyhelis

    iflyhelis Member
    Messages: 53

    All rubber seals are not alike, they are made for or should I say spec'ed out for each application. Some are made to be used in a "oil" application & others are for a ATF application. Do a search some time & see what I am talking about.

    Adding alcohol, if the seal is not meant be be in that environment, will allow the seal to lose its oil content which then will cause it to dry out & crumble, causing leaks.

    I once was a jet engine mechanic in the Navy, I dealt with hydraulic fluid & all kinds of oils on a daily basis.

    If it were me, I would use what the manufacturer recommends & don't cheapen up.

    If I had bought that plow & it leaked like that, that dealer would be replacing the pump/lines/lift & angle pistons. Or maybe the whole plow package just for spite.
     
  10. iflyhelis

    iflyhelis Member
    Messages: 53

    You do know that alcohol is hygroscopic (absorbs water from the air) ? This could cause rust in your pump reservoir, which then will act as a abrasive in your system, then wear out your seals.

    Use what is called for in your owners manual.
     
  11. basher

    basher PlowSite Fanatic
    from 19707
    Messages: 8,992


    If your Dealer believes that he needs to retire. 5606 aircraft hydraulic is a far cry from ATF with Alcohol added. Do yourself a service and find a dealer that stays current. Drain the AFT and fill that unit with a premium Snowplow Hydraulic fluid.

    AFT is 11 times thicker then aircraft hydraulic fluid @-15degrees that will use excess amperage, wear the components faster, and slow the pump speed way down.


    He's wrong.
    I don't know how dealers can spew this kind of BS and look in the mirror?
    DD is contributory to the problem, if they wheren't so cheap and included the 2 QTs of fluid required the un-informed, poor quality dealers might use it instead of ATF.
    Then again they may think it's just a ATF/alcohol mix and use it in their transmissions.:rolleyes:

    B&B hit the nail right on the head, make the dealer change it out. Be sure he flushes everything before refilling.
     
  12. shanta74

    shanta74 Member
    Messages: 72

    if it wasme i would take it back to the dealer and make them change it thats like going and buying a brand new truck and it having a sb rated engine oil in it.
     
  13. Grizzly290

    Grizzly290 Junior Member
    Messages: 7

    The thing that really bothers me is I just spent $5000 on a new plow, figuring it would have the PROPER FLUID! I would of paid the extra for the proper fluid if I would of been given the option. I don't wan't to have to change it myself now, but I feel I have no choice, because the dealer is swamped with work, and is an hour away, and will probably tie my truck up for a whole day. The leak turned out to be a loose plug on the angle ram. The dealer is actually a good guy, but old school in this regard. He also is one of the largest Western & Boss Dealers around, and all his plows get ATF. I just hope I don't issues because of this. Thanks to all who replied.
     
  14. B&B

    B&B PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 12,777

    He use's ATF in the new Boss install's also? :eek:

    What a shame....
     
  15. Earthscapes

    Earthscapes Senior Member
    from WNY
    Messages: 577

    Where in NY are you ? I want to make sure I never shop there :eek:
     
  16. Runner

    Runner Senior Member
    Messages: 957

    Now I DO know that the Boss fluid is designed to have a much lower freezing temperature.
    Personally, I have always used ATF.
     
  17. B&B

    B&B PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 12,777

    It's not only the freeze protection that's important when comparing ATF and dedicated plow oil.. it's the low temp viscosity difference that's just as important...
     
  18. yardsmith

    yardsmith Senior Member
    Messages: 248

    drain your plows, whether western, meyers, fisher, or whatever. Replace it with Boss fluid esclusively & your worries will be over. Boss fluid is made from aircraft hydraulic fluid, which keeps from freezing on planes & wings at -50 degrees. Be sure to get ALL of the old fluid out first.
     
  19. Kingwinter

    Kingwinter Senior Member
    Messages: 217

    this ATF VS Hydro fluid sounds like something the mythbusters should take on.
     
  20. basher

    basher PlowSite Fanatic
    from 19707
    Messages: 8,992

    the difference in fluids are not myth their scientific fact. Trip edges are easier on your transmission that's a myth.