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More &^#%~@&$@ crap with my paint job

Discussion in 'Truck & Equipment Repair' started by Bad Luck, Nov 18, 2005.

  1. Bad Luck

    Bad Luck Senior Member
    Messages: 741

    You all know my story with the paint on my rig. Without getting into a long story again, it's been back 5 times, and after getting it back about two weeks ago it's starting to show signs of the same thing I brought it back for the 4th time.

    The paint looks almost holographic. You can see swirl marks that look deep in the paint. The guy told me that he used a steel pad for buffing last time and that's why it looks the way it did and that he was going to use a different compound and a differnt pad this time. The truck looked great for almost two weeks. I even washed it on Saturday and it looked good. But the past few days it seems like the polish or whatever is wicking out of the paint and showing what is was covering up.

    Is this normal for black???? What should a freshly painted, correclty done black paint job look like????

    Thanks guys. Sorry to keep bothering you all with this. :headwall

  2. Brett K

    Brett K Member
    Messages: 42

    My guess is that he is using compound and a rotary and using a poor wax with alot of filler (silicone) to just cover up the swirls. My guess about what is happening is that when the cheap wax is gone (2 weeks is typical for cheap stuff), the haze from compounding comes right back. For the look and durability you are after, there should be some intermediate steps in the detail using progressively less abrasive products. For example, after he uses a compound with the rotary, he should be switching to a foam pad and a much milder abrasive to remove the compound hazing, then a topcoat like a pure carnauba wax containing no abrasives. With proper maintenance and alot of care, it should hold up well. You have to be really anal about the products you use on a black vehicle and there are very few people I would trust other than myself to buff one out.

    If you are into doing it yourself, get a Porter Cable Random Orbital buffer and good quality foam pads and you would be amazed how great you can do without damaging the paint. VERY rarely should a rotary and rubbing compund be used on a vehicle, especially a new one. Every time this guy touches your truck, the more clear he removes. FInd yourself a better detailer.
  3. Playboy

    Playboy Senior Member
    Messages: 335

    Yes it is typical to see swirl marks on a black car/truck. Black shows everything. Even if you don't have it detailed ever and just do normal high way driving you will see swirl marks over time. It's the way air moves around the vehicle. When I used to detail I did a multi step process. I would; wash the vehicle, compound (3M), re wash, wax (Zymol works good but must be refridgerated), buff, glaze (3M), final buff. I'll use a buffer to compound heavy scratches out but for every thing else it's all hand buffing. Diaper rags/cloths work very good for buffing and they are very cheap.
  4. RYDER

    RYDER Senior Member
    Messages: 281

    I used to be an ASE Certifided Auto Body Tech and Auto Parts Specilest. You should not see swil marks if the job was done right. It sounds like he used to coarse of sand papper when he was priping, before he painted it. With black paint you need to use a vary fine sand papper and buffing compound or you end up with what you have.:cry: :realmad:
  5. scuba875

    scuba875 Senior Member
    Messages: 250

    I agree I paint a lot of equipment and we use black a lot. I think that he used the wrong sand paper in the prep work and unfortunatly unless he takes it back down, primers and paints it all over again you will always have this problem. Painting is all about the prep work if you cut corners there you might as well not even bother. Sorry I know you don't want to hear that answer but you paid for a job you might as well demand it's done right. Good luck I hope it all works out in the end.
  6. QMVA

    QMVA Senior Member
    Messages: 431

    A lady I know had here black car waxed and it also had swirl marks in the paint from the buffer. Car looked terrible for a couple of months but eventually went away. With my family on our expensive vehicles like my moms lexus we have them minged. The way it was explatned to me is its like a long term wax maybe someone else knows more about it. What ever it is it looks really good and brings a nice shine to the paint.
  7. Mowerpan

    Mowerpan Senior Member
    Messages: 305

    As as detailer at a Carquest Excellence Award Winning Large Collision Center(http://www.carquest.com/exaward_refinish.html) I know a "little" about paint. For your swirl marks you need to try abnd figure out if there in the paint or the actual bodywork. If they are just in the paint maybe they just tryed to buff it out without polishing afterwards, and instead just cake the wax on. I would take it to another collision center or detailing place AFTER taking pictures of it's present state and have them look at it for you. They will be able to identify RIGHT away what the nature of your swirls are, and take car of them if you'd like, and take the receipt to the bodyshop you went to early and have them take up the bill hopefully or just let them deal with the bad reputation you will let others be aware of.

    After its painted and you get it, it should look glossy and for lack of better terms"flat" meaning there should be VERY LITTLE if any swirls and should look like a mirror when looking at it strait on or an angle. I know we will buff and polish a vehicle and use handglaze(like a temporary thin wax) and this will take away these very SLIGHT swirls to leave you with a excellent shiny swirl free finish.

    A STEEL pad for buffing? I think he was feeding you a line of BS. I don't even think there is such thing.

    But yes like "QMVA" said you can have the vehicle "Sealed" which is like he said basically a long term wax, almost like another clear coat. Usually we only use this on the very rare vehicles that come in for buffs and polishs and have a single stage enamel paint job where when buffed color is actually taken on, this "wax" acts as a clear coat. I'm sure this will help your prolly but your truck weeks after would be normal to have MINOR swirls, this would be normal, but if the swirls are as bad as you say this is NOT minor. If wax doesn't take the swirls off, take it and get a second oppinion.
  8. Ice Scream

    Ice Scream Member
    Messages: 82

    A STEEL pad for buffing? I think he was feeding you a line of BS. I don't even think there is such thing.

    Ya its called a grinder...:p
  9. repo_man62

    repo_man62 Senior Member
    Messages: 502

    They needed to use "Black Gold" Specially made for Black finishes.
  10. Bad Luck

    Bad Luck Senior Member
    Messages: 741

    The more I look at it the more I think that the swirls are in the base paint coat and not in the clear. With the holiday's coming and everything else I have going on it's rough getting to a good body shop to ask them to look at it. I called the dealer today and told him that the signs of the marks are showing again and that I am no accepting it the way it is. I'll be dropping the truck off again, when I go on vacation in two weeks.

    It is extremely difficult to get a good picture of the paint. It's even hard to see on certain days. The best way to see it is in person in the sun or at night with lights shining at the truck.
  11. Scott R

    Scott R Member
    Messages: 60

    Another Guy's opinion

    Many good things have been mentioned on the subject, I'll offer a couple things, attached are shots of some of my work, the red & white flame bike is mine, I did all the work from the ground up, so I have intemite knowlage with this paticular time investment. The reflection pic. is of my camers shooting the side of my tank. The other pic. is of my buddies bike I painted, this shot is right after I sanded, buffed & polished it. (black * burnt orange) Keep in mind, the size of pics allowed here do not do justice, (email me if you want the full size)
    Now onto the subject. I will make an assumption that you got a paint job that incorporates the typical base coat / clear coat.
    typicly if you have an issue (swirls) from to low of grit sand paper during the prep and prior to the base coat, this will show up as actual deprestions in the paint, even with multipal clear coats, bad prep can be hadr to cover. On that same note, minor inperfections can be covered with the base coat and clear.
    I think the swirls are in your clear coat. Almost all major manufacturers of paint, (PPG, DuPont, HOK, etc) will tell you not to wax until 90 days after the clear has been applied, as the paint has to be allowed to "off gas" meaning breath, or release the solvents that make it fluid and allow you to shoot it with a gun. Now, there are some safe waxes that allow breathing, but you have to know what your buying. Let's talk about Clear Coats. They were never developed to need wax, this has carried over from the old one step paint jobs. Stop rolling your eyes, do some resurch on this and you will find the same thing. That's not to say they cannot be used after the paint has fully cured, and they can make things look better for awhile.
    If you are seeing a change in the way the clear looks after, I bet the paint is not cured and is still off gasing and is being effected by the waxing, etc.
    If you have a good clear coat, you can do the following, (I do this all the time to expensive bikes)
    Wet sand with 2,000 grit, buff with white 3M foam pad and 3M extra cut III, rinse good, buff with black 3M foam pad using 3M polishing compound, the paint looks better than showroom when you are done. This process can be done 24 hrs after clear coat application, (under normal dring conditions)

    Just my 2 cents :D



    paint reflection.JPG
  12. Scott R

    Scott R Member
    Messages: 60

    One other comment, this is unlikely, but very possible, if you are seeing a hazing that has the apperience of a film on your paint, the painter could have used incompatable reducers for the base or clear. This can effets the end product greatly.

    Can I ask how much you paid? Also, what do yu know about the products they used, (paint, etc.)