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Mixing dry Cal Chloride with the salt brine in the brine maker?

Discussion in 'Ice Management' started by valleyviewlawns, Dec 11, 2014.

  1. valleyviewlawns

    valleyviewlawns Member
    from Montana
    Messages: 90

    Has anybody mixed up their salt brine to the 23.5% and then added dry CC to the mixture to get the 90/10 or 80/20 mix? I am limited on availability of LCC in my area unless I want to pay $3.25 gallon, or more. I was going to try mixing 360 gallons of salt brine and then add the 164 pounds of dry CC to that. That way the CC would run me about $1.60 per gallon. 1/2 the cost. Thoughts?
     
  2. AlertSnow

    AlertSnow Member
    Messages: 88

    I would not suggest it** That Is my disclaimer

    But one factor you have to think of is the exothermic reaction of adding CaCl. It will heat up and level out to 180 degrees F. So if you have glue and pvc maybe not the best thing.
     
  3. Kubota 8540

    Kubota 8540 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,952

    Ahhhh, the wonder and beauty of experimentation. Please do tell/show us your results if you do so.?
     
  4. valleyviewlawns

    valleyviewlawns Member
    from Montana
    Messages: 90

    I wouldn't think that dropping 50 lbs at a time in 360 gallons of salt brine would not create heat at those temperatures. I'm going to find out though. I need to do some more calculations first. I may need a few more gallons of water to unsaturate the salt brine so that it can take the added calcium chloride without making the salt fall out of suspension.
     
  5. valleyviewlawns

    valleyviewlawns Member
    from Montana
    Messages: 90

    I tried it today. I mixed 360 gallons of salt brine, added 40 gallons of water then slowly added 160lbs of calcium chloride. The water warmed up about 8 degrees, mixed up well and will be sprayed tomorrow. I tested a small pile on top of the plastic tote lid. I poured about 2 cups of dry calcium chloride on the plastic the added water to it. Using a laser thermometer I watched the temperature rise very quickly to 111 degrees and the slowly lower back down. It does create heat, but not enough to cause any issues. 111 degrees will not melt these plastic totes.
     
  6. NorthernSvc's

    NorthernSvc's Senior Member
    Messages: 766

    I have often thought about doing the same thing - but never got around to sitting down and trying to figure out the pound to gallon ratio of how much granular and water would be needed to equal the 32% llc...
    Curious how you came up with your 165 lbs...
     
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2014
  7. DKG

    DKG Senior Member
    Messages: 199

    I just checked my notes,
    82 gallons of water plus 450 pounds of calcium chloride flakes = 100 gallons of 32% brine.
     
  8. todddude

    todddude Junior Member
    Messages: 16

    I would try Mag Chloride instead of calcium chloride. I had a bad reaction using a sodium/calcium blend that was applied to rock salt as a pretreatment. It cause a negative reaction and the rock salt solidified at about 15* due to the two chemicals not reacting well as a blended brine. I also believe it can cause the sodium to "fall out" of solution if it is not mixed correctly. Creates a bad situation in your tanks & systems....like having fine sand clogging everything up.
     
  9. White Gardens

    White Gardens 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,665

    Personally, I would take your calcium and try to just mix up a 50gal drum of it.

    That way you can just add the diluted calcium to your application tanks when needed, thus keeping your brine solution costs down. Use as needed.



    ......
     
  10. valleyviewlawns

    valleyviewlawns Member
    from Montana
    Messages: 90

    It was 140 pounds not 160. I was shooting for 32-35%.
     
  11. 86 CJ

    86 CJ Senior Member
    from MD
    Messages: 285

    Sooooo. How did adding the Dry CC to the Sodium Brine work out for you??

    Did it work when you applied it better than just Sodium Chloride Brine? I am in the same boat here in MD with finding liquid CC, so I might be making my own liquid Cal as well...
     
  12. valleyviewlawns

    valleyviewlawns Member
    from Montana
    Messages: 90

    It worked well. I was pleased with the results. I mixed it at 90/10 with salt brine and used it at 8°F ground temp and had good results. One parking lot was solid ice and packed snow when I sprayed it. I let it sit most of the day and it came right up with the plow. The other lots were at bare pavement in about an hour. At this point though I am using mag chloride at different ratios with salt brine because I can buy it at $1.00/gallon from the dust control contractors here. There were NO problems with the heat it makes when mixed with water. 111° for a half a minute won't melt my totes.
     
  13. 86 CJ

    86 CJ Senior Member
    from MD
    Messages: 285

    Thanks for the info... Glad to here that the calcium worked for you.

    How much mag are using in your Brine ? Lets say you were making 400g at a time...
     
  14. 86 CJ

    86 CJ Senior Member
    from MD
    Messages: 285

    Did you have any re-freeze issue later that night or the next morning? Did you have to re-treat at all??
     
  15. valleyviewlawns

    valleyviewlawns Member
    from Montana
    Messages: 90

    I mix mag in the salt brine from 90/10 to 60/40 depending on ground temps. Or if it is below zero I use mag straight.

    I did not have any refreeze issues with the calcium chloride in my salt brine. I anti-iced, plowed, then de-iced. I am spraying at about 70 gallons per acre. More if it has been really packed down into ice.
     
  16. 86 CJ

    86 CJ Senior Member
    from MD
    Messages: 285

    Thanks, are you charging the customer for pre treat and post treat?
     
  17. valleyviewlawns

    valleyviewlawns Member
    from Montana
    Messages: 90

    I have some customers that demand bare pavement so they gladly pay. When we were using a spreader and putting down ice melt or rock salt it was costing the customer more money and taking us longer. We're both happier.
     
  18. 86 CJ

    86 CJ Senior Member
    from MD
    Messages: 285


    I hear you on that, so you were applying 70g, twice in a day and plowing....
     
  19. valleyviewlawns

    valleyviewlawns Member
    from Montana
    Messages: 90

    I apply it at that rate. Each customer doesn't get that much each visit unless they have one acre of pavement. Most customers get deiced only.