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Meyers E60 question

Discussion in 'Commercial Snow Removal' started by deluxeco, Dec 29, 2002.

  1. deluxeco

    deluxeco Senior Member
    Messages: 115

    Have a three year old e60 pump,the other night the unit got increasingly slower lifting the plow almost as if it was getting worse the more you use it,I notice a pretty substantial draw on the alternator when using it,at first it works fine but gets worse as your plowing.Is it time for a new motor? If so is a buyers replacement ok or is there a better one out there? Thanks!
     
  2. Chuck Smith

    Chuck Smith 2000 Club Member
    from NJ
    Messages: 2,317

    The short answer is you need a new motor. The new motor has a ground lug on it, instead of the pump body. Meyer realized this about a year ago, and added the grounding lug to the motor.

    You can clean your ground connection, and remove the motor and clean the corrosion where it mates to the pump body. It might help. You can also remove the end cap from the motor and inspect the carbon brushes, they might be worn by now. Don't be surprised if when you remove the end cap, water comes out, and everything looks rusty. If you want to remove the motor you will have to remove the end cap to get to the screws that hold the motor to the pump body.

    ~Chuck
     
  3. deluxeco

    deluxeco Senior Member
    Messages: 115

    sounds like i better replace the motor & be safe....any concerns of the bolts breaking off in the pump housing?
     
  4. Chuck Smith

    Chuck Smith 2000 Club Member
    from NJ
    Messages: 2,317

    Good question. They don't break off, they strip. The good news is, they screw into a plate, that is replaceable. The plate cost my brother $19.00 last year. Very easy to change the plate too. Two screws hold the plate on. Be sure to run a short jumper cable from the motor ground lug, to the old pump housing ground bolt too. This will help ground the pump housing as well.

    The original problem is that aluminum is a lousy ground. When you mate aluminum to steel heavy corrosion is normal.

    I can't seem to find my E-60 manual, or I would post the part #.

    Meyer realized the mistake they made mounting the motor horizontally too, hence, their latest design....

    ~Chuck

    (Edit: The latest design is the E-57 pump. It still isn't on the meyer website though...)
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2002
  5. BRL

    BRL PlowSite.com - Veteran
    Messages: 1,277

    Now Chuck has the best advice when it comes to these things but I'll throw in my .02 and look at it in a different light. I've had the same problem, but I can't remember ever having replaced any motors on any of my plow pumps. I have pulled them all apart, cleaned the brushes (think I replaced some brushes in one of them before) etc., & put them back together & they've been 100% better. I did add a better ground like Chuck mentions, as my E-60's are old. And to combat the water in the motor problem I drilled a hole in the bottom of the housings so as to allow any standing water to drain out. Since doing all of that a couple of years ago I haven't had any problems with my E-60's (knock on wood). So it might be worth it to try that before spending the money on a new motor, if you're comfortable doing that kind of work. Its certainly also possible that motor is shot, but I figured I'd throw these thoughts out there.
     
  6. deluxeco

    deluxeco Senior Member
    Messages: 115

    well i picked up a new motor today,simple job two screws pull the cover,two bolts & its off right? wrong.....unless the aluminum end of the motor is fused to the pump housing from corosion & YOU HAVE TO SPEND AN HOUR CAREFULLY CHISELING IT OFF!!:realmad: OK I feel better now. As far as drilling the hole in the motor housing can you be more specific? Also running the ground from the ground lug on the pump housing to what? one of the two philip screws that holds on the protective cover? Thanks guys.....
     
  7. Arc Burn

    Arc Burn PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,138

    Chuck,my Fisher is doing the same thing,its a electric MM,i know your a meyers guy but do you think i might have the same problem?are these motors "basicly" the same,what should i look for?I have a new 120 amp alt. with dual batteries and when i run the plow she drains considerably,much more than normal,i understand it takes juice but this is to much,the plow is 6 years old and has been used quite abit.
     
  8. Chuck Smith

    Chuck Smith 2000 Club Member
    from NJ
    Messages: 2,317

    Deluxeco, your new motor only has 1 lug on it, where you attached the + lead to? No second lug for the - lead? If that is the case, you don't want that motor. The NEW motor design has 2 lugs. A + and a -

    You move the ground lead from the pump housing directly to the new second lug on the new motor. From that lug, you run a lead to the old ground lead location on the pump housing.

    Now you know what I meant by corrosion!

    I might have a picture of an E-60 with the new style motor, and old ground location...... Let me look.

    Arc Burn, does the Fisher motor have 2 lugs on the motor? If not, try to remove the motor, and look for corrosion around the base of the motor where it mounts to the pump. If you have to chisel it off like deluxeco, then that would be part of your problem, if not THE problem.

    People always overlook grounds when it comes to electrical problems, and as I have said before, at least 80% (if not more) of electrical problems are ground related.

    ~Chuck
     
  9. BRL

    BRL PlowSite.com - Veteran
    Messages: 1,277

    "People always overlook grounds when it comes to electrical problems, and as I have said before, at least 80% (if not more) of electrical problems are ground related."

    Ditto!!

    Actually include the hot connections too! You'd be amazed at what unconnecting every wire, sanding all of the washers & connectors to bare copper or steel again, reattaching & sealing- from the battery- through the solenoids, switches, motors- will do to the performance of those electric plow pumps & spreaders.

    Deluxeco,
    Welcome to owning an older style E-60, been there & done that with a few of them LOL They're great units once you get these problems solved. I believe the newer motors also have a drain hole or maybe a plug, along with the new grounding lug. Check for that first. You probably saw that the bottom portion of the motor had more corrosion that the top. This was because every time it rained or snowed, water got in there & would then sit in a puddle until it evaporated or slowly leaked out of the seam. So the solution is to drill a tiny hole at the lowest & bottom most part of the motor cover to allow that water to drain out, instead of sitting in there in a puddle. Another great idea is to buy one of those rubber pump covers sold at all the dealers & online suppliers. That helps tremendously with keeping moisture out of there, well worth their price IMO.
     
  10. Arc Burn

    Arc Burn PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,138

    Chuck,the motor has 2 lugs positive and ground,i will clean them again,but have been told the motor could be getting weak,i was looking for a reliable opionon so i threw that one at ya!If connections are clean,were do we go from here?Thanks for the help
     
  11. Chuck Smith

    Chuck Smith 2000 Club Member
    from NJ
    Messages: 2,317

    Remove the end cap and inspect the carbon brushes. After 6 years of use they could be worn. With the E-60 (which you don't have) I often found the springs that hold the carbon brushes broken due to rust. The fisher motor turns at about the same RPM as the E-60 motor, and the E-60 motor eats brushes faster than the slower turning E-47 motor.

    Point being, the brushes could be worn. Add some rust on the shaft, and the brushes will wear down even faster.

    I would also check the filters on the pump. If the pump can't move fluid easily, it will put more of a strain on the motor too. If you haven't changed the fluid recently, I'd change it too.

    I guess the first step is to remove the motor and see if you can easily spin the shaft by hand. I had an E-47 motor where rust built up on the motor shaft, and it was very tight spinning in the bronze shaft bushing. I got the bushing off, cleaned the rust with fine emery cloth, and soaked the bushing in oil over night (3-in-1 oil, because it is very thin). Bronze is porous and will soak up oil.

    Never had a problem with that motor again.

    Does your hydraulic system have any leaks? If it does, then water can get sucked into the system. Even a little water can effect pump operation.

    Does the pump draw as much when the temperature is above say 40°?

    Just a few ideas for you.

    ~Chuck
     
  12. BRL

    BRL PlowSite.com - Veteran
    Messages: 1,277

    Ah that's the fun of troubleshooting hydraulics. One seemingly simple problem could be created by 4 or so different causes. The fun is determining which, or how many of them apply. However its only fun when you have your spare pump hooked up, so you can troubleshoot the problem after you've caught up on sleep from the storm, instead of during the storm. Then its not so fun :realmad: Have dealt with everything Chuck just posted as well. Reading this thread makes my want to go pull one of my pumps apart to see whats cooking in there & how much corrosion I can find since the last time LOL. Been a while now. But I've had those rubber covers since the last time & the pumps have performed flawlessly, so I think keeping the chances of moisture from getting in makes a great difference.
     
  13. Arc Burn

    Arc Burn PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,138

    Took the motor off and brought it to a shop and it all checks out,changed the selenoid for the hell of it,I hear ya on the bad grounds,been there,done that,gonna check again though,its really strange,its only when you run the plow and it runs things so low the service engine light comes on and goes out by itself,i didn't think it could do that,i thought it had to be removed from the dealer,put a code scanner on it(when the light was out)and it had no codes,i thought the computer kept them untill they were retreived?
     
  14. Chuck Smith

    Chuck Smith 2000 Club Member
    from NJ
    Messages: 2,317

    I am posting this because after removing the E-60 motor a few times to clean corrosion, the motor mounting screw holes tend to strip out. The replacement plate part numer is

    Part# 15730, and it is #49 in the parts list.

    I might addyou need to drain the fluid before you change the plate, or you will make a real mess when you remove it!

    ~Chuck