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Meyer E47 trys but won't lift plow.

Discussion in 'Residential Snow Removal' started by ThatDude114, Dec 15, 2014.

  1. ThatDude114

    ThatDude114 Junior Member
    from Moscow
    Messages: 12

    Hey guys, I've got an old Meyer E47 pump with blade I picked up for $200 a little while ago. I've got it all hooked up and can get it to angle left (Moves left when clicking right, I'm guessing B valve is stuck.) Anyway the pump will move up and down without the plow attached but it won't lift plow. I can manually lift the plow and get the chain taught with pump and it won't leak down over time. Any ideas? It's full of brand new fluid. My original thought was that the lift ram packing was shot but wouldn't it leak down if that was true? Maybe the pressure needs to be adjusted? Also whats the best way to clean the valves? Thanks for the help guys.
     
  2. kimber750

    kimber750 PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 3,565

    Packing cup on lift ram shot, Bad B valve o rings or low pressure. Right angle is done with C valve, green wire.
     
  3. basher

    basher PlowSite Fanatic
    from 19707
    Messages: 8,992

    Bad pump, bad C valve, check the condition of the crossover relief.
     
  4. ThatDude114

    ThatDude114 Junior Member
    from Moscow
    Messages: 12

    Okay so tonight I got the pump off and into the vice. I pulled both B and C valves, the seals looked in good condition, as per the Meyer site I used a small screwdriver and both valves moved fine, but with little travel (I'm thinking that it's a normal amount.) I wasn't able to get the A valve pulled yet because I couldn't find a deep socket to fit it. What am I looking for when I dig into the crossover relief? And when you say bad pump, what do you mean? Like that the pump could just altogether be bad and not fixable?

    On my shopping list I currently have a basic seal kit to replace the lift ram packing cup, and a new A coil (Wire on old one broke off.) Is there anything else I should get? I don't have Meyer dealer near me so I have to order online and would like to order everything I need in one shot. Once again I appreciate the help guys, it sucks being a novice with plows!
     
  5. kimber750

    kimber750 PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 3,565

    I would leave crossover alone. Since it does go left most likely the crossover is fine. I would start with packing cup on lift ram for the lift issue. With this I would recommend a master seal kit. It will include almost everything needed except a wiper seal. Need to test for magnetism at C valve to diagnose angle problem.
     
  6. ThatDude114

    ThatDude114 Junior Member
    from Moscow
    Messages: 12

    I had actually checked for magnetism yesterday. Both B and C have magnetism. This is the seal kit I was looking at: http://www.smithbrothersplowparts.com/store/index.php?l=product_detail&p=7119
    It says that is has all the seals to take the top cap off and everything, the only thing I'd need to pick up is the wiper seal right? Their other kit that they sell is a full seal kit for the entire pump, valve seals, crossover seals, so I didn't think I'd need that one. Is there another kit you'd recommend?
     
  7. kimber750

    kimber750 PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 3,565

    That kit has the wiper seal. Strong magnetism? If you have magnetism when pressing right, I would replace C valve.
     
  8. ThatDude114

    ThatDude114 Junior Member
    from Moscow
    Messages: 12

    Yeah it had strong magnetism. Dang! $65 for the C valve! Anything else I should check before replacing the C valve?
     
  9. kimber750

    kimber750 PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 3,565

    Make sure you are testing on the truck with the control to rule out any possible controller issues. But if it goes left the crossover and pilot check should be fine. You can try removing quick couplers and bolting hoses directly to the pump to rule out the connectors.
     
  10. basher

    basher PlowSite Fanatic
    from 19707
    Messages: 8,992

    This comment makes the seal kit repair suspect. If it were a piston seal it won't hold. Are you getting a lot of fluid around the lift piston??? If not it's more likely the pump.

    As for not touching the crossover relief; First the unit defaults left a good or bad crossover relief will not effect that. Second; It could be a frozen crossover relief if it has an appetite for C valves. If you mess with the crossover replace it with the new one piece. They flow more fluid (the original one is HIGHLY inadequate) and doesn't require a test bench to properly set it.
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2014
  11. kimber750

    kimber750 PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 3,565

    Will never see fluid around lift ram since it will dump back into reservoir under the top cap.

    IMO OP is over due for a complete rebuild but I have learned on here most want quick and cheap fix.
     
  12. dieselss

    dieselss PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 10,924

    .cant you just silicone the top of the paking but then? That's the quickest fix for a leaking ram? Just a thought
     
  13. basher

    basher PlowSite Fanatic
    from 19707
    Messages: 8,992

    I tell a couple of the pumps sitting by the rebuild bench to stop leaking out the top seal.

    I don't doubt it could use a rebuild, if only to clean out the reservoir, get rid of the unnecessary filter and seal every thing nice and tight but it won't fix the weak pump (or possibly improperly adjusted pressure relief if some yokel screwed with it.)
     
  14. geer hed

    geer hed Senior Member
    Messages: 275

    Sounds like you have a couple problems going on at the same time. Lets start with one then go from there.
    First check the fluid level, it should be 1 1/2" from the top of the filler hole. Next check the filters and make sure they are clean. Now you said the B coil had magnetism, and O-rings looked good on the valve and that the valve wasn't stuck. The B coil ( red wire) and valve is what makes the plow raise when you hit the switch, Next check the A valve and coil 9 black wire. The A coil is what holds the plow in the up position and allows it to drop when you hit the switch. If either of these valves or O-rings are bad it can keep the plow from raising.
    As far as the plow angling left, it will do this as a default. Whenever the motor runs and a coil or valve does not function the plow will angle left. So lets get the up and down working first, then we will look at left and right, But if you don't do proper troubleshooting and testing, you will tear the pump apart, reseal it and still have the same problems.
     
  15. ThatDude114

    ThatDude114 Junior Member
    from Moscow
    Messages: 12

    Alright well I got all my stuff ordered, new c valve, new c coil, b valve o rings just in case, A coil, seal kit, and a toggle switch extension. It'll all be here on Monday thanks to two day shipping. I've got another question though, anyone know what size nut is for the 3/8 A coil? They sell just the nut for the 5/8 version but not the 3/8.
     
  16. kimber750

    kimber750 PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 3,565

    New c valve should come with nut, use the old c valve nut on a valve.
     
  17. ThatDude114

    ThatDude114 Junior Member
    from Moscow
    Messages: 12

    Well today was the day of reckoning. I rebuilt the pump, installed the new c valve, b coil, a coil, greased all areas of the plow, tightened the trip springs. I hooked the chain to the lift arm, hit the up switch and..... was faced with the endless drone of failure. The motor runs, the pump tries to lift the plow but refuses to do so.:gunsfiring::gunsfiring: After an hour of swearing and seriously contemplating lighting it on fire I decided to try and adjust the pressure. No matter how far I turned the set screw it would not reach a high enough pressure to lift the blade. It can be helped with a jack and then get the chain taught and keep it there with no leak down. So now I'm faced with a hard decision, my gear pump is bad and it's a decent chunk-o-change. So here's a rundown of my cost's so far, I paid $200 for the blade and pump, I have about $200 in materials to mount it to the truck, and I've spent about $200 in parts for the pump. It does appear that the pump has at least been decently cared for, when I took it apart it was clean except for a little grime in the bottom and all the seals looked good which makes me wonder if it was rebuilt at some point. So with all that said here are the options that are obvious to me, I could attempt to fix the gear pump like the OP of this thread:
    http://www.plowsite.com/showthread.php?t=89772

    However, it seems like many attempts of this were futile and I don't really want that seal to blow while I'm out plowing. There's a used gear pump assembly that came off a "working" pump that's selling for about $25 as I write this, or I could buy a whole new gear pump assembly for about $150. The last choice is obviously the best but I just don't know if I should keep feeding this money hungry monster (Of course admittedly a good part of the money spent was do to my own ignorance and not listening to much more well informed members, gotta make my own mistakes I guess.) Do you guys think it'd be worth it to buy the new pump? Maybe take my chances with the used one? I'm open to any suggestions guys. Hope you're having a good holiday season and are staying safe this winter.

    PS. I appreciate it if anyone actually read all of that, I know it was a lot.

    Edit: I don't know if this would make any difference at all but I'm not using Meyer M1 fluid as there's no dealer within 150 miles of me. Instead I'm using Boss High Performance Hydraulic Fluid for their snow plows. Could this contribute to any of these problems? What I drained out of the pump when I first got it was tranny fluid and I had read that it's an absolute no-no on Meyer pumps.
     
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2014
  18. basher

    basher PlowSite Fanatic
    from 19707
    Messages: 8,992

    You didn't need a rebuild, as I've said a couple times already you need a new gear pump.

    Funny how no one wants to listen to the Pro.
     
  19. dieselss

    dieselss PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 10,924

    Funny how no one wants to listen to the Pro.

    I stayed at a holiday inn express, does that make me a pro?
     
  20. geer hed

    geer hed Senior Member
    Messages: 275

    Do you know how old the pump is ? Meyer changed the style pump they used sometime in the mid 70s. It could be that old. We have an E-41 that still works great.