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Manifold porting

Discussion in 'Blizzard Plows Discussion' started by scottr, Mar 6, 2015.

  1. scottr

    scottr Senior Member
    Messages: 360

    Does anyone have a clear flow diagram for the 810/811 manifold? I have the one in the manual but it's not clear to me. I'm running central hydraulics and cannot figure out if the entire flow passes threw each spool valve before dumping into the return side of the block or not.

    I recently fired up this plow for the first time, I was running 7 gpm thru the manifold and back to my tank, worked wonderful for about 2 hours, then the relief valve I installed started lifting, indicating something was blocking or restricting flow in the manifold. Jerre gave me some advise about lowering my GPM to under 6, max. So I swapped out the guts of my pump and brought it down to 4 gpm, the relief is still lifting.

    I pulled my supply line off the manifold and shot air into the system and it flowed back to my tank with ease, no back pressure. Looking for a smoking gun of some sort, I started pulling each spool valve out and testing, also pulled checks and ,manifold reliefs. Everything looked clean and tested good except S10 ( slide box extend) when I un threaded it, only the coil shaft section came out, the rest was stuck inside the manifold. The center ( working / moving part ) slid right out also. I had to work the outer section for some time with an easy out to get it free.
    So, my question is, can this restrict flow? The outer part of the valve cannot move back and forth in the bore so I believe it was just stuck in place and when I in threaded the valve, the 2 sections came unthreaded also.
    Could use some insight and suggestions.
    Thank you
     
  2. bliz&hinikerDLR

    bliz&hinikerDLR Senior Member
    Messages: 471

    Hope this helps you.
     
  3. scottr

    scottr Senior Member
    Messages: 360

     
  4. bliz&hinikerDLR

    bliz&hinikerDLR Senior Member
    Messages: 471

    What is the function of the stack coil/valve assembly on the left of the picture?

    If I understand the flow of your system correctly, the C/H system (starting at the far right of the picture) pressurizes the valve block until your relief valve pressure is reached. Additional fluid/pressure is then dumped back to the C/H tank through the relief valve. If a function is activated, returning fluid then is directed through the small valve block with stack coil. The normal state of this small block is to return to the C/H tank.

    This description of flow would mean your relief valve is active anytime the plow is not moving. It also means that a valve in the main block would need to be open anytime you wanted to use the functions of the small block with the stack coil/valve. Certainly not the ideal hydraulic setup.

    I am not sure I have this right. Please clarify.
     
  5. scottr

    scottr Senior Member
    Messages: 360

    You're correct on most of the flow, from the pump, fluid enters the relief valve on the right, flows right thru into the silver block I built and into the pressure port of the manifold, thru it and out the tank port, then into the open center, double acting valve on the left, out the bottom of it and back to the tank thru the tee on the discharge side of the relief valve. My thoughts are that when I use the extra valve ( to run the rear plow) any extra fluid would go past the relief to the tank. Thoughts?
     
  6. bliz&hinikerDLR

    bliz&hinikerDLR Senior Member
    Messages: 471

    Do you understand that the fluid entering the main valve block has no where to go. There is no direct return to the tank side. Pressure continues to build until it pushes past your relief. Have you used your back plow yet or did you just put the parts in place for later use?

    So does your silver block mounted to the manifold just direct fluid into manifold through the pressure port and out through the return port? Or is there an alternate path the fluid can take through the silver block?
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2015
  7. scottr

    scottr Senior Member
    Messages: 360

    Well this is most interesting, I was under the impression the blizzard manifold flowed threw? No?
    How are the other guys doing it? Seems like several others have done this using their own block ( not the blizzard one with the solenoid valve) ?
    I can blow air into the fitting where my fluid enters and it flows back to my tank with no back pressure, what gives?

    I have not used the back plow yet, just have valuing in place for now. ( still need to build it )
    Yes, my silver block just directs flow into the pressure port and back out through the return. If I didn't have the extra valve for the rear plow, it would just flow back to the tank.
    my block has 2 ports that match the ones on the blizzard manifold, I just machined them at right angles for my fittings, 1 in, 1 out.
    Thank you for your interest in helping me understand this system better. My first system I build over 20 years ago and is running strong, however, it uses a standard valve body with 2 spools, very simple. I'm new to the elect. Over hyd. Stuff.
     
  8. scottr

    scottr Senior Member
    Messages: 360

    heres a shot of my block I milled. The only port not showen is on the bottom, it lines up with the pressure port. Not sure if this helps you see what my flow is doing or not.

    IMG_7593.jpg
     
  9. bliz&hinikerDLR

    bliz&hinikerDLR Senior Member
    Messages: 471

    Ok. Keep in mind that you have built more homemade hydraulics than I have. However, when you removed the factory motor/pump/block assembly you took out two things. Pressure when it is needed (i.e. motor and pump) and the adjustable relief valve for main system pressure.

    Ideally flow would go like this:
    -->Fluid flows into a new block with a single cartridge valve and a relief valve. Where when:
    Cartridge valve is not activated, fluid goes through the block back toward the tank.
    Cartridge valve is activated, fluid goes past relief valve (which returns extra pressure to the tank) and out of the block to a T fitting.
    -->T Fitting flows to the back plow block and the block mounted to the manifold
    -->Back plow block needs to:
    Stop fluid when not activated.
    ? Exactly how the valve is ported will depend upon the function desired.
    -->Fluid flows into the block on the manifold.
    -->Fluid leaving the block on the manifold returning to the tank passes through a check valve before rejoining with the line returning to the tank.

    BTW: You appear to be one hell of a fabricator/machinist.
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2015
  10. scottr

    scottr Senior Member
    Messages: 360

    Well, I guess it's back to the drawing board for me. Here's an idea, if I use the blizzard CH block as intended, then use the P1 & T2 ( I think those are the indicators) on the side of the manifold to use as the supply and return for my rear plow valve? Making sure I use a closed center valve so it stops flow while using the front plow ? I assume those ports are open to pressure.
    Thoughts
     
  11. bliz&hinikerDLR

    bliz&hinikerDLR Senior Member
    Messages: 471

    With your apparent machining skills I would not pay the money that Blizzard gets for the CH block. You could build your own.

    Yes, you could use the old test port (P2) for another cylinder system! Hell of an idea!!! P2 is open to pressure and T2 returns to the tank (no pressure). What is the function of your back plow? Up and float?
     
  12. BladeBlowBucket

    BladeBlowBucket Member
    Messages: 92

    Been following you on this and was curious where it was going to go …..

    So ? …… Apparently now that you seam to be stumped …. maybe think about this one for a moment …… Why not get a block that is intended for the Skid-steer version plow …. they flow oil constant and divert only the oil needed to function the needs (as in my Blizzard 8611 PP) … the engineering is already done with valves and reliefs calculated , every function I use there are 2 solenoids that have to be activated … 1.) to divert flow (every function) … and 2.) to stroke/direct oil to a cylinder ……

    Hope this might give you maybe an alternate idea to study the hyd schematic flow of one of these manifolds

    Keep-up the great work been enjoying this thread greatly … Thx
     
  13. scottr

    scottr Senior Member
    Messages: 360

    At this time I don't have all the right tooling to machine a block to except the valve cartridges, might be a wash if I bought them vs the CH block. Right now I'm leaning toward the block so I can get this up and running for more than 2 hours. The back plow will be up and down with down pressure and a relief valve between the two lines. Just got a free 810PP with out the wings that I'll use for the back plow.
     
  14. scottr

    scottr Senior Member
    Messages: 360

    Heading that direction now. I still have some un answered questions about the manifold. The diagram in the book shows the flow path but does not show the porting. I may be all wet but I think there is more to the manifold than just the diagram. Like I mentioned in an earlier post, I can blow air all the way thru my system, back to the tank and all my functions work on the plow. Still some mystery. I have a 4 gpm in route, when it arrives, I'm going to install it, fill my tank and do some flow testing just for the fun of it and to try and learn more about the manifold. My buddy who gave me the 810 for my back plow also offered a manifold for me to cut up in the band saw to try and learn the porting, I just can't bring myself to do that :eek:
    Hope to have this thing ready for the next snow.
     
  15. BladeBlowBucket

    BladeBlowBucket Member
    Messages: 92

    So ??? ….. thinking about this some more ??? ….

    What if you created an extra manifold that interrupts the continuous flow WITH another solenoid …… On mine the, as I said before there is a valve (solenoid) that is at the beginning or right at the pressure/feed inlet of the manifold … when you actuate a function it switch's as well as the spool solenoid for the function ……. SO , if you had a solenoid block in front or where the oil enters your main manifold, that switch's and diverts the oil into your manifold to the function and then flows it to a common or "T" back to the Tank return line after that first manifold ….. (This is hard to explain… LOL) …… ALL the solenoids on your manifold require a Diode on each to prevent cross flow or multiple solenoids opening at the same time when the first manifolds solenoid is actuated … This is what is in my Skid-steer Plow harness to do the same ….

    Here is a Pic of the 8611PP Manifold :

    001.jpg
     
  16. BladeBlowBucket

    BladeBlowBucket Member
    Messages: 92

    On the LEFT HAND side of my pic, you can see the big main FEED/Return hoses attached …… The VERY FIRST solenoid (on the left) is the one I am speaking about that allow continuous flow until it is actuated and diverts to the port where simultaneously that ports solenoid is also actuated returning flow back to the common return to tank line …..
     
  17. scottr

    scottr Senior Member
    Messages: 360

    What your describing is exactly what blizzard sells for running CH, I thought I could get away from using it and built my own ( with out the solenoid) as I thought the manifold was a flow through design.
    Thanks for the photo, nice and clean Thumbs Up
     
  18. bliz&hinikerDLR

    bliz&hinikerDLR Senior Member
    Messages: 471

    Your picture must have posted upside down. The hoses and the activation solenoid are both on the right hand side of the picture.

    I don't think that buying the valve block and loading it would be a cost effective solution.
     
  19. BladeBlowBucket

    BladeBlowBucket Member
    Messages: 92

    "You're Absolutely Correct" ….. My brain was thinking looking from the machine side …. What can I say … It was Late after a really Long Day … LOL
    It was only an Idea to "KISS" …… But if anybody would know how costly they are … it would be you b&h …….

    Thanx for keeping me inline …. LMAO ! …… :drinkup: