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Magic Salt Application

Discussion in 'Ice Management' started by iowastorm, Sep 16, 2000.

  1. iowastorm

    iowastorm Senior Member
    Messages: 358

    I know there has been alot of discussion on Magic Salt and how to apply it, but I'd like some input about liquid application. We would like to get away from the extra man hours of snow blowing/shoveling and manual application of dry de-icers (by walk behind broadcasters) to sidewalks/ walkways at commercial storefronts. Since Magic Salt will melt up to 2 inches of snow, it seems like a great way to cut down on labor and machine time. My thoughts were to buy a 200 gallon skid spayer w/ a 5.5hp Honda engine and mount it in the back of one of the trucks. I figure the time of driving past the store fronts while another guys sprays the material on the sidewalks would dramitically reduce the extra time we spend parking the truck, unloading the broadcasters, loading the dry, bagged material and walking up and down the sidewalks to spread the material. Now the initial investment of the skid sprayer is almost $2K, but it does seem worth it. Any thoughts or suggestions??????
     
  2. diggerman

    diggerman Senior Member
    from Ames
    Messages: 700

    When you get around to the spray sprayer specialties had a nice one at the show the other day might want to check them out.
     
  3. iowastorm

    iowastorm Senior Member
    Messages: 358

    Digger,

    Can you add to that? I didn't quite follow what you meant.
     
  4. diggerman

    diggerman Senior Member
    from Ames
    Messages: 700

    Sorry I got in a hurry had to put the kids to bed.There is a place in Des Moines that is called sprayer specialties that has a brine set up for a pickup that they had at the Iowa Municiple snow show.It had flow meters on it like what they have on terra gators,it looked like a nice unit. I am looking in to buying some premade brine maybe,my salt fell through there is none to be bought this year,at least in bulk.I guess I'll have to think ahead next year.If you decide that you want to try to build your own sprayer let me know,my best friend used to be a service rep for AgChem and he is prob going to help me set up a brine sprayer.
     
  5. iowastorm

    iowastorm Senior Member
    Messages: 358

    Digger,

    Here's the unit I was referring to on the Northern Tool website: http://www.northerntool.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/ProductDisplay?prrfnbr=648&prmenbr=6970

    I didn't know that there was a DSM Snow Show, otherwise I would have went. Definately interested in investigating the brine set-up. I know that we'll be spreading sand in the parking lots, but want to reduce our application time on the sidewalks and walkways. If you use a brine solution, how do you make it and do you add the Magic Salt to the solution??
     
  6. diggerman

    diggerman Senior Member
    from Ames
    Messages: 700

    There was not a Des Moines snow show it was a municiple show that is put on every year at Hilton in Ames for the DOT ,cities and counties but we go because we do municiple stuff and also find the equipment interesting.I am looking to maybe buy a brine that is premade as for Magic I have found that it has a much bigger fan club here than anywhere else I have found.Im not saying its bad but I have talked to other magic dealers who say thatit does work but there are other solutions that have the same effects but are cheaper.I am going to find out for my self,we will try some diffrent things this year.
     
  7. diggerman

    diggerman Senior Member
    from Ames
    Messages: 700

    Hey I just looked at northerns web page,I think you ought to go to sprayer specialties they have a set up that comes with the sprayer bar for not a whole lot more.I think the guy told me they start at $2400 with the PVC sprayer bar.
     
  8. iowastorm

    iowastorm Senior Member
    Messages: 358

    Thanks for the info diggerman. Wouldn't mind talking w/ you about this stuff further some time. Can you drop me an email and I'll give you my cell phone number?
    iowastorm@uswest.net
     
  9. plowking35

    plowking35 2000 Club Member
    from SE CT
    Messages: 2,923

    Liquid is a funny beast. The conditions have to be right, or you will do more good then harm.And the magic is brown, so tracking can be a problem into the building. Its even more of an issue with the liquid. We use the magic salt and drop spreaders, and I dont think that is any longer than spraying the liquid. The unit from Northen wont work, it isnt set up for the semi solids that is in magic, contact Johnny P, he knows the guy that build the units.
    Dino
     
  10. plowking35

    plowking35 2000 Club Member
    from SE CT
    Messages: 2,923

    I missed the magic fan club note. I can only report what we have personally found.
    AS far as other items, they may work as well, liquid calcium works great, but you canot pretreat salt with it effectively, and it will eat anything it comes into contact with. Same with liquid salt. Now you can add straight liquid, and pre wet systems, but why bother whenall you have to do is pretreat your salt, and use it in the equipment you already have.
    Magic also has a fan club here because we have used it, I have found few others who have, so be wary of the naysayers.
    The side benifits to magic are what really sells it to me. Non corrosive, and non toxic. Wont harm plants or equipment.
    No other deicer can say that. Nitrogen maybe, but not in the quanities that are needed to melt snow.
    Dino
     
  11. n y snow pros

    n y snow pros Senior Member
    Messages: 246

    CAUTION

    Those of u who have not used liquids before need to be extremely careful with the liquids u decide to use.You cannot just spray these liquids willy nilly and think they will do a great job.Yes they do work well and can save time,money,and in some cases like magic your equipment,but u must crawl before u walk.The spray tank system mentioned in this thread will not work for most liquids.It certainly will not work for calcium or magic.This system is a fertilizer system they differ dramatically from the anti ice systems due to 2 major reasons.1st is the fertilzer tank system companies use filters ,no good u cannot use a filter as it will clog,and anyone who is familar with calcium knows this all to well.2nd fertilizer systems are designed for high pressure low volume spraying.Anti icing requires high volume low pressure,and the difference is in the pump.Putting straight liquid on a sidewalk will almost garuntee u a law suit unless u know how and when to apply liquids.All these liquids work on air temp,ground temp and humidity levels.These products work incredidibly well and in the case of Magic will melt up to 2 inches of snow but these liquids can get u in serios trouble if u are not familar with how to use them.All chemicals can change from a liquid to a solid when coditions change and there in lies the key,u must learn a few things about these chemicals before using them except for sprayed salt.This is salt which has been sprayed with magic and u can spread it how ever u feel like it and this particular way of using Magic is esy and very effective.If you would like more info on Magic coated salt or magic liquid just give us a ring and we will be happy to give u more info
    Thanks John Parker
     
  12. iowastorm

    iowastorm Senior Member
    Messages: 358

    John,

    Thanks for the info on that sprayer. I'll get in touch with you about the Magic Salt.
     
  13. diggerman

    diggerman Senior Member
    from Ames
    Messages: 700

    Iowa if you go to sprayer specialties they will show you a applicator specificly for brine, on a skid to be put in a pickup.
     
  14. iowastorm

    iowastorm Senior Member
    Messages: 358

    Digger,

    I'm going to go see them today if I get a chance. Thanks for the info on that.
     
  15. sprayman

    sprayman Junior Member
    Messages: 1

    iowastorm, why spend the money on premaid systems when you can put the same pakage together for about half. It doesn't take much time. The first system that you were looking at was realy set up to spray lawn chemicals and would require a lot of additional parts to make it do what you want to do.

    The next question is how are you going to bill this? Are you billing by the gallon or by the job? This will determine if you need the all the extras like a flowmeter or a flow control valve. I spent 3 years in the commercial spray industry with Ag Chem and have seen a lot of problems with flowmeters. It realy depends on the solution and how often you use it. If you decide that you need one make sure you know about it and how it will work in your situration.

    As for tanks I would recomend going to farm sales if you have time. Their is nothing special most poly tanks. They make tanks that will fit the bed of a truck. You just need to decide how much you want to carry. This leads you to where are you going to refill and how much do you need to keep on hand in a bulk tank.

    I currently work and plow for diggerman and will be helping him set his system up.
     
  16. iowastorm

    iowastorm Senior Member
    Messages: 358

    sprayman,

    Thanks for the info. Already bagged the Northern idea. The questions you brought up about quantity, etc are things I'm working on. Digger recommended that I check out sprayer specialties, which I'm going to do this week if I get a chance. Don't think I'll need flowmeters in the system, unless it can work w/out a problem. I'm interested to see how you guys set your system up. Let me know.
     
  17. soilmover

    soilmover Member
    Messages: 31

    Used ploy tank

    Hey sprayman,

    Do you have any more info on used farm tanks??

    I need a 1000 gal. to 1500 gal. for yard storage of magic.
    I would like to buy used. Do you know where to buy and how much a new one would cost??

    I also need to buy a spray unit for a F-350 pick-up.
    I will be pre-treating walks,lots, and roads.
    200 gal. unit???
    Any thoughts?????:confused:
     
  18. Taconic

    Taconic PlowSite.com Veteran
    Messages: 180

    Soilmover give me a ring and i can get some prices to you on some used tanks which i know of .We can get 500 gallon tanks upto 17000 gallon used tanks presently.
    John Parker
    845-485-4200
     
  19. 66Construction

    66Construction Senior Member
    Messages: 315

    I had good luck spraying sidewalks the last couple storms of last winter. I followed what John Parker told me when I bought the stuff, the clients said they have never seen such clean walks during a storm. I used an infared Thermometer to keep track of ground temperatures. How ever this liquid to a solid thing has me worried.
    Casey

    John I'll give you a call this week you got me worried now!