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Magic Salt and my dealer

Discussion in 'Ice Management' started by jvm81, Jan 13, 2011.

  1. jvm81

    jvm81 Senior Member
    from Midwest
    Messages: 381

    A: I am experimenting on a few lots with magic. Thus far its ok but I still like my sand salt mix but magic doesn't track in as bad.

    B. Magic is expensive in comparison

    C. My dealer is meeting with the DOT today and tomorrow to get a contract with the DOT down at the capital blding. I can't beleive you just walk in and get a meeting to sell the DOT magic - heck I figure if they want they go direct.

    D. Maybe I am totally missing something here with magic? Being there out of town I am doing a few lots for them tomorrow but I just don't see the magic.
     
  2. tuney443

    tuney443 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,847

    I use Magic now exclusively.I really have no idea what you're really asking here.I love the stuff and so do my commercial clients.An hour after I remove the last snow flake,my lots are wet and mostly black.
     
  3. jvm81

    jvm81 Senior Member
    from Midwest
    Messages: 381

    Just saying I cant beleive this guy is getting towns, city's, and workiing with DOT to use this stuff. I did spread some again today and by noon they were wet and then we got a good dusting and it collected everywhere else but on my lots. This magic salt may have something here.
     
  4. tuney443

    tuney443 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,847

    In NY, many towns use Magic salt,sometimes just the brine.I don't know why it's hard to believe,Magic's been around for like 10 years now.That is the lingering,residual effect you're witnessing regarding the dusting just melting off.
     
  5. Digger63

    Digger63 Member
    Messages: 44

    Look at the Specs

    As with anything with the towns and the state you still have to bid for things. The state will bid out thier lots with deicing with either an organic compound or some sort of enhancer for the salt. International salt treats with Ice be gone which is the same as magic, just a different trademark name. Cargill treats with Clearlane. Both companies bid on the NYS salt bid per year. If you look it up on the OGS web site you can see who wins what and which town buys from who. Treated salt isn't a big demand for the most of the state depts since they have both the equipment for prewetting and anti-icing availible to them. Most of your towns are the same way. Calcium chloride is still used as the mainstay for both. The Thruway has switch to the beet juice for anti-icng. the last bid they had asked for it and they awarded it to Road solutions.
     
  6. tuney443

    tuney443 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,847

    Welcome to the site there Digger,I see you're a fellow Dutchess guy--where abouts? I'm based in Poughkeepsie.
     
  7. Juice Induced

    Juice Induced Member
    Messages: 30

    MAGIC SALT vs. BEET JUICE

    When comparing one organic de-icer to another, the most important thing to consider is the level of carbohydrates and solids content. Magic Salt is a very good product! The fact of the matter is GEOMELT 55 is better. Just take a look at the carbohydrate and solids levels of each de-icer and you'll see why. All ice melt capacity data and/or scientific research data clearly proves this point. Lower carbs and solids equal lower ice melt capacity and less residual and anti-bonding effect.

    Just to be clear, I'm talking about the base organic product. If you mix GEOMELT 55 with the same chloride as Magic Salt, and at the same ratio, GEOMELT will outperform Magic Salt every single time. The base organic in Magic Salt is Brewers Condensed Soluble (BCS) or Distillers Condensed Soluble (DCS). A simple search on the internet will tell you that the carbohydrate level of BCS or DCS is anywhere between 10% and 15% depending on the brewer or distiller source. I've never seen a beet juice co-product carbohydrate content below 16%. Our local GEOMELT distributor claims that their carbohydrate content is over 20%. Many if not all, states that bid beet juice require that the carbohydrate level exceed 20%.

    Any DOT that is thinking about using Magic may want it because Magic is pre-blended with MgCl2. Some agencies don't want anything to do with self-blending. Our local GEOMELT distributor has a product called BEET HEET Concentrate which contains GEOMELT and natural CaCl2. Their YouTube video shows that it melts as much ice as 32% calcium chloride. Agencies that want to blend an organic de-icer with their sodium chloride brine to save money would be much better off using BEET HEET Concentrate. Cities and DOT's in Indiana and Ohio are buying BEET HEET Concentrate for less than $1.12 per delivered gallon and blending it with their $0.10 per gallon NaCl to make a really effective de-icer that costs less than CaCl2.
     
  8. Harold Finch

    Harold Finch Member
    Messages: 88

    Magic dealer info

    Hello,

    I am an authorized Magic dealer located in NJ. Magic holds a patten on their product.. They are the only supplier that can use distillers condensed solids(other knock-offs like you were talking about can only use brewers condensed solids, which do not perform like dcs) No one can buy from Magic directly, only dealers. Even the gov must go through an authorized magic dealer. Let me know if you need any other info.

    HF
     
  9. tuney443

    tuney443 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,847

    Now that this thread has been hijacked like so many here,now regarding another product Geomelt-beet juice,or whatever else you want to call it,I completely endorse Magic to being far superior.You can put as much spin with numbers and such on it there juice induced,but by me[at least regarding last Winter,as the former dealer went to something else this season],you would see that lots done with Geo took longer to de-ice than those with Magic.Let's also not forget how that stuff stains your hands and clothes.
     
  10. Harold Finch

    Harold Finch Member
    Messages: 88

    10 4 tuney
     
  11. NW Snow Removal

    NW Snow Removal Senior Member
    Messages: 533

    we tried magic salt 2 years ago. we took a whole tanker full 4800 gallons. apparently got a contaminated shipment as our liquid would start to freeze at about 10 degrees. We had 40 v-boxes freeze up after plowing for an hour in 5 degree weather in late december of 08. In January 09, We sent a sample back to our dealer in barrington, IL, who confirmed it was bad, and they sent a sample back to their dealer in new york. It took until late march of 09, but they confirmed it was bad and that they would reimburse us, either by another load, or our money back. Well, since the winter was over and we had such a bad experience with the product we asked for our money back.

    Well, since we had used about 2000 gallons of the contaminated(not-working) magic salt, our dealer said that we would only get a partial refund. At this point I just wanted to get past this bad experiment with liquid(25k invested), and get back something, I said ok, fine. I get them to sign a letter of intent to repay us and we go forth. By the middle of summer 09 no payments had been received. So, At the SIMA show in kentucky, I track down the owner of the dealer from barrington and walk with him to the booth of the magic dealer from new york. We all come to an understanding that I will get money back and we go forth. I am expecting payment soon. Checks trickle in for about 6 months totaling only half of what we agreed to. My dealer says they have no money until next winter as they took a load of liquid from the dealer not cash back, and they need to wait til next winter to generate revenue to pay us. So, spring 2010 we get a collections agent to go after them and it doesn't faze them. Talk to dealer from new york again at SIMA in 2010 and they told me they gave my dealer a full shipment for free in 09. My dealer still says they'll pay ASAP, but they just keep delaying our money back until they generate more liquid revenue.

    I am ticked because I know they got a full load in return for free and I am only getting a credit of about 60% of my purchase. And it is taking forever to get my last 30% they owe me..
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2011
  12. Harold Finch

    Harold Finch Member
    Messages: 88

    NW, sounds like you need a new dealer.. Any good ones other than that guy in your area?
     
  13. Digger63

    Digger63 Member
    Messages: 44

    To each his own ( Part 1 of 2)

    Didn't mean to start a war here, just brought up things that anyone can look up. I've used three products and had results both similar and expected depending on the composition of the products. Each have thier plus and minises.
    One end of the spectrom is a product like clearlane, salt treated with mag chloride with an inhibiter added to counteract to harshness of the corrosion. the residual effect i found is low. Similar to the agencies that use calcium chloride as a prewet for salting. This combo is very fast at very low tempertures. downside of this is the refreeze once a certain dissolution is reached.Didn't mix this myself because it is sold a completed product.But the product works.
    The other end that I have found is IceBite, sugerbeet derived product. Sugerbeet byproduct particles hold very well in suspenstion. you can look up weight per gallon and specfic gravity to see this. Also the application ratio is 6 gallons per ton of salt to achieve
    the lower tempertures. As with other organic deicers it is commonly mixed with mag chloride to accelerate the melting process. Because of the high particles per gallon there is a very high residue and which is also the organic end which lowers the corrosion rate considerable. This product isn't as fast as straight calcium or straight mag, but if your looking for the residue effect very high and low application per ton to achieve this. But the Product works.
    Please see part 2( and give me some time to type)
     
  14. Digger63

    Digger63 Member
    Messages: 44

    to each his own ( part 2 of 2)

    Now another product everyone here knows is magic, For treating salt one of the first performers. A well advertised product, I 've used this product and mixed with it. As with any product look at the weight per gallon and the specfic gravity. I'm guessing that it is potatoe based since most of the distillories for vodka, whiskey etc. are made from potatoes. I've tried to look it up and never could get a specfic answer of what it really is made of or where it comes from. For the lower temps the rate is 8 gallons per ton. This product is also mixed with mag chloride. the organics also reduce the corrosion rate. Of the three this one comes somewhere in between with it being closer to the residule end more so than the mag end. With 8 gallons per ton to produce a residual effect I would imagine also brings in a higher mag rate making a faster burn rate. The product works.
    As with both organic products, if you get a high enough concentration ( pure liquid) on you, yes it will stain.
    In New York, two different companies state bid the whole state for treated salt, different trade names, but both names on MSDS sheet. Any government agency or schools are allowed to buy from this pricing look up NYSOGS for the pricing in New York
     
  15. Harold Finch

    Harold Finch Member
    Messages: 88

    Where magic comes from

    It is not "potato" based however potatoes may be involved in the initial distillation process. During the process distillers condensed solids are a by-product, these are what make up most of magic-o(the rest which I believe to be less than 10% is MgCl). The actual dcs come on boat from Germany and other over seas countries that have big distillation plants. One of the main reasons it costs so much is the journey it takes... when we get distillers in the states involved I expect price to come down and make it an even more cost savings product.
     
  16. Digger63

    Digger63 Member
    Messages: 44

    still a little confused

    The msds sheet that i saw ( ice be gone ) which included magic o had a mix of 50% mag and 50% distillers condensed solids. Doing it the simple way of 8 gallons per ton you would have 4 gallons mag and 4 gallons distillers condensed solids per ton. Beer is somewhat consistent that it is derived from wheat,barley,and hops. if a mix said brewers condensed solids i would assume these are the base ingredents that make up the mix. All distilling processes start with a base product of some kind. Many different products are made by distilling ( gin,scotch,whiskey, vodka, even vinigar) but they all start with something to be distilled from ( ie.. potatoe ) . So at this point, i can assume it is not from this country ( imported) and the words "distillers condensed solids" doesn't really tell me a whole lot about whats in it.
     
  17. hlntoiz

    hlntoiz Senior Member
    from NW, CT
    Messages: 588

    Ice-B-Gone is Magic-0. Ice-B-gone II or any other variations is Iceban. All produced by Sears Petroleum. Ice-B-Gone is what is sold to municipalities. Magic is sold to the private sector. That is how the contract works.
     
  18. Harold Finch

    Harold Finch Member
    Messages: 88

    Nope.. Sears sold out a bit ago.
     
  19. Harold Finch

    Harold Finch Member
    Messages: 88

    But yes Ice be Gone is similar product, same patten owned by sears
     
  20. hlntoiz

    hlntoiz Senior Member
    from NW, CT
    Messages: 588

    Is this the same Harold I know from the other site?