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Magic Salt again. . .

Discussion in 'Ice Management' started by vis, Sep 23, 2007.

  1. vis

    vis Senior Member
    from 4
    Messages: 324

    Where can I find information on how to apply rocksalt treated with the magic spray on chemical?

    Im mainly looking for info on pre applications and during storm applications..


    Can this stuff be used in a salt sand mix too?
     
  2. Mick

    Mick PlowSite.com Veteran
    from Maine
    Messages: 5,546

    http://www.clearpathproducts.com/magic.html#

    http://www.saltinstitute.org/30.html

    Yes, but if you using sand, you could treat the sand alone. I've gotten good results doing that. It's actually redundant treating a sand/salt mix with Magic -0. There would be no real benefit and you are defeating the original purpose of the salt with sand. Treat either the sand or the salt, but not used as a mix.

    Where are you located? I don't know about "Location" numbers.
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2007
  3. vis

    vis Senior Member
    from 4
    Messages: 324

    located in CT.

    So if i have my salt pile sprayed with magic minus zero, can i then pre treat parking areas with the treated salt, or do i need a liquid spray rig to actually spray on the minus zero to the paved areas??

    I do have a truck that currently does not have a sander and a spray rig could be an option, as balast and make for a high capacity spraying rig.

    I currently am using a salt sand mix, which im trying to get away from, because it melts the residual snow after plowing so slow, and if i do get any icing, all it does is mask it with the sand, and there is not enough salt to melt it fast enough.

    Straight salt is also something i am considering, but it seems every contract i go for wants magic salt applied.
     
  4. Mick

    Mick PlowSite.com Veteran
    from Maine
    Messages: 5,546

    There should be a Magic dealer near you who will spray your pile. You will need a loader to turn the pile to get it mixed well. You can also use a sprayer and put Magic -0 directly on the surface. Here's another link that should help with finding a dealer who can explain better.

    http://www.magicsalt.info/
     
  5. vis

    vis Senior Member
    from 4
    Messages: 324

    Mick, would i be able to totally phase out my salt/sand mix and use magic exclusivly?

    what happens during a storm when i make my first run thru? do i drop the magic salt?

    seems like for pre/post storms i would use magic, and during i would need sand...
     
  6. Mick

    Mick PlowSite.com Veteran
    from Maine
    Messages: 5,546

    If you're going to use a treated salt, you'll usually use it as a pre-treatment to keep the snow/ice from bonding to the surface. This will also give the benefit of melting some of the snow as it falls (the advertisements like to tout "melts up to 2"). Then you can come along and plow up whatever doesn't melt. Since it doesn't bond to the surface, it gives a cleaner "wet and black" result. Sand would actually be counter-productive in this scenario as it would serve no purpose and be something that needs to be addressed (cleaned up), If this is a dirt or gravel surface; using a treated salt is not recommended - stick with sand or sand/salt as a treatment AFTER the snowfall. Using salt/treated salt as a pretreatment in that situation will result in a melted surface and MUD.

    As far as the "seems like for pre/post storms i would use magic, and during i would need sand..."; I wouldn't as I explained above. For any site, use treated salt or sand/salt, but not both. If you used the treated salt as a pretreatment, there would be no need to use anything until you were ready to plow the cleanup, then you could (but not really neccessary) put down another application of treated salt. That'll take care of anything left after plowing, although the residual action of the original application should still be working.

    You will use less product by using a treated salt and it will be more effective. But you still will need to price the service/product accordingly. I can't really give you good advise for pricing per acre/mile, since I use it in smaller areas; Plus the fact that I make my own Magic -0 treated salt.
     
  7. JpLawn

    JpLawn Senior Member
    Messages: 208

    Mick how do you like the magic salt? Im looking in to using it this winter. I was going to mix my own to save a little money.payup I dont want to wait for someone to show up and treat it for me. How easy is it to make? any info would be great thanks.
     
  8. Mick

    Mick PlowSite.com Veteran
    from Maine
    Messages: 5,546

    I like it real well. Been using it for about five years when I got some from John Parker's BBQ in Poughkeepsie, NY that he used to put on every year. I started making my own treated salt using regular rock salt and Magic -0 a year or so aftter that. It's real easy- you can make small quantities mixing it in any container. For example, I started by buying 80# bags and breaking a couple into a wheelbarrow. Then pour the Magic -0 over the top and mix with a shovel. When thoroughly mixed, I'd shovel it into a 55 gal drum with a lid for storage. A couple years ago, I bought a tractor with a front end loader. Then I built a funnel-shaped wooden framework. I break 8 bags into the loader, pour the Magic -0 over it, mix thoroughly and dump onto the framwork which funnels it into the 55 gal drums. I market to small businesses and fussy pet owners - selling it by the pound in 20-30 lb containers. I make A LOT more per ton than those who sell for treating lots and roadways.

    If you are treating piles, you'll want a sprayer setup.

    I buy rock salt by the pallet, which is a lot cheaper than per bag and Magic -0 by the drum. But, you might want to look into other brands for treating your pile. I've heard Magic -0 is getting pretty expensive, relative to others.
     
  9. JpLawn

    JpLawn Senior Member
    Messages: 208

    Thanks for the info. I'm looking to treat piles. They say it takes 8 gallons to treat a ton. The price per gallon in our area is around $3 per gallon. So i would buy it in bulk and spray the piles my self. Do you know anyone that has sprayed it on the piles? It looks easy but Im unshore of the proper way to do it.
     
  10. Mick

    Mick PlowSite.com Veteran
    from Maine
    Messages: 5,546

    Simple. You need a spray setup that will handle the stuff (not aluminum) - like a fertilizer sprayer. Spray it on top of the pile and let it settle down through it. Have a loader to "turn" the pile to get it to settle down through again. By that time, the salt should be completely saturated. I think you could actually do it with a backpack sprayer if you didn't mind ruining the aluminum nozzles.

    The "proper" way is to just get the salt saturated with Magic -0. Doing like I did (only on a bigger scale) would actually work. When I had to, I'd just catch the runoff from the first time pouring it and pour it back over the top again. But you really need some way to mix (like stirring) it to get all the salt saturated. I have treated a salt pile by pouring Magic -0 into the tractor bucket and dumping it on top of the pile.

    One time I poured a 55 gallon barrel half full of salt. Then poured a a couple gallons of Magic -0 over it. Let it soak through and tipped the barrel almost on it's side just enough so the salt didn't spill out. Magic -0 drained off and had a darned HOT batch of treated salt. Melted about ten inches of snow from in front of my garage before it lost residual effect.

    Secret (so don't tell anyone). I've heard that some commercially marketed treated salt is mixed at 4 gallons per ton rather than the recommended eight. Reason is that at the four gallons it's more "pourable" and not as "wet".
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2007
  11. hotshot4819

    hotshot4819 Senior Member
    Messages: 231

    jplawn, where are you located in nh, i am in somersworth/dover area. i am also looking into getting a set up for piles. i have a hydroseeder, and i can easily spray piles, maybe we can work something out. let me know.
     
  12. JpLawn

    JpLawn Senior Member
    Messages: 208

    Im in the nashua area. I have a 600 gallon easy lawn that i could use but im looking for a 300 gallon turbo turf to use for applications. Are you using it now or are you looking to us it?
     
  13. hotshot4819

    hotshot4819 Senior Member
    Messages: 231

    i am in the process of getting the information and figuring it out if its worth the time and money invested. 3 bucks a gallon adds up and if not used correctly you can actually spend more money treating storms then normal. there is a fine line in making this stuff profitable for the contracters.
     
  14. JpLawn

    JpLawn Senior Member
    Messages: 208

    Thats what im looking at. Is it going to be profitable or costly. Some people swear by it. Im looking at treating 75-100 ton to start.
     
  15. hotshot4819

    hotshot4819 Senior Member
    Messages: 231

    yea im looking at about 350 ton of salt this winter, and honestly, thats alot of magic salt i would need. so, most likly i wont do it, however i would love to try it on a few lots.
     
  16. tls22

    tls22 PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 4,263

    i went on a magic salt presentaion last night it was very informative.......they said in the information packet that the application rate is 8 gallons per ton of salt....General procedures: we bring our tank and spray unit to your stockpile. You will provide a loader and operator to turn the stockpile as the liquid Magic 0 is being applied. This is a required to ensure uniform treatment. Estimated 30 min for a 25 ton pile. Load size is increments of 10 tons or 25 tons. I have a price list also if u want that. They said is very harmful to alumminum. I was very impressed with that product thought, have you ever use it? Also the spray rig you can build on your own, if you want to save money. It only consists of a tank and pvc pipe, the tough part would be installing the honda eng. The tank can carry 230 gallons of liquid.....and its 11 pound per gallon.....so ur basiclly talking about 2 tons. They also say if u have a hydroseeder you can do it urself......and they might want to contract you to do other piles in your area
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2007
  17. GSE

    GSE Senior Member
    Messages: 108

    I've been debating using treated salt the last few seasons, done quite a bit of research, and every year decide to shy away from it. Most of the contractors I know that have used it didn't see any benefit. They claim that they didn't see any better results than straight salt, and they still had to deal with burnt up lawns in the Spring. From what I gather during my research, the contractors that love it are somehow involved in selling it retail. The ones that hate it seem to be the end users. Coincidence maybe? I'm still toying with the idea myself, but adding $24 dollars per ton to my salt costs just doesn't seem worth it to me.
     
  18. Hey guys, don't forget that yes it will cost you more upfront in material, but you won't use as much. You reduce your use 35-50%. Plus it works to -35. It really makes a big difference from using white salt. The city of Binghamton NY has been using Magic for 5 plus years and they have reduced their use over 250 ton. But everything tls said is correct.
     
  19. JD Dave

    JD Dave PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 11,045

    Is Magic like Bare Ground. We put wetting systems on 2 of our trucks 5 years ago. The next year we took them off. For the extra time and money I didn't see a benefit. When prestorm salting it was less dusty. I never tried pretreating a pile, maybe that's what I should have done. I can see the benifit on the road because wet salt doesn't bounce off the road onto the shoulder but in a parking lot, why does it matter.
     
  20. tls22

    tls22 PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 4,263

    Yeah in the class they said it does not burn lawns at all. So i guess that was a lie on there part. The DOT for the NJ turnpike uses it,And every tine i drive by in a storm the road is wet. There is also alot of notable users in the northeast Of magic salt, tons of unversitys and hospitals. In class i ask what if we have a early winter and come febuary we are still getting buried with snow, how is the stock pile. They said there is a endless supply. I also know some contractors that use it are involved somehow with the selling of the product! In the end i will probably stick with what i know SALT!:salute: