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mag chloride

Discussion in 'Ice Management' started by leigh, Nov 27, 2014.

  1. leigh

    leigh PlowSite.com Addict
    from CT
    Messages: 1,987

    Whats the going rate for liquid mag? Got a brochure in the mail from a close by business selling for 2.50$ a gallon.
     
  2. Digger63

    Digger63 Member
    Messages: 44

    pricing depends on the amount you want. if your talking about 3000 gallons or more around 1.40 per gallon delievered.
     
  3. leigh

    leigh PlowSite.com Addict
    from CT
    Messages: 1,987

    Thanks,just checked the brochure again and they sell it for3.50$ gal!Just wanted to get 250 gal .Tough to find liquid here in ct
     
  4. Digger63

    Digger63 Member
    Messages: 44

    if you have a tote to put it in i sell it here in Poughkeepsie
     
  5. leigh

    leigh PlowSite.com Addict
    from CT
    Messages: 1,987

    Thanks, only 75 miles from me, I'll send you a pm for contact info.Just have to find the time!
     
  6. Icemelters

    Icemelters Inactive
    Messages: 19

    liquid mag

    what do you need liquid mag for? It is probably the lowest quality chemical for pure snow and ice melting and the cost us very high
     
  7. leigh

    leigh PlowSite.com Addict
    from CT
    Messages: 1,987

    Going to use it in a cocktail to prewet at the spinner.Researced it a lot and didn't read anything that neg though.
     
  8. Mark Oomkes

    Mark Oomkes PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 10,853

    Not quite, potassium chloride is a far bigger waste of money than mag.
     
  9. Icemelters

    Icemelters Inactive
    Messages: 19

    Leigh

    research a little further. Prewetting at the spinner adds zero melting power. Any liquid (that doesn't freeze) will start the brine activation process and that's what we need. I'd use cat pss if I could get enough of it. The cheapest activating agent is probably the best for all of us.
     
  10. Mark Oomkes

    Mark Oomkes PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 10,853

    What in the world are you talking about?


    Prewetting with mag, calcium, sodium or any other other foo foo concoctions most certainly does speed up the melting process because it is already a liquid. Add to that the fact that calcium and mag are exothermic and they are great products to use, if you don't mind the corrosiveness.

    Are you implying that all the manufacturers of spreaders with prewet systems are just scamming everyone that buys one?

    This is your second post that is flat out wrong. Why?
     
  11. leigh

    leigh PlowSite.com Addict
    from CT
    Messages: 1,987

    I've done plenty of research! Actually been thinking about this for years!Just to busy/lazy to hookup my sprayer.After countless research from state dot's and university studies a salt brine mixed with mag or cal will have beneficial results on rock salt effectiveness.There's no disputing this,it's proven science,not just plowsite banter.
     
  12. Mark Oomkes

    Mark Oomkes PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 10,853

    Good to hear you're not buying this guy's load of bovine excrement.
     
  13. Icemelters

    Icemelters Inactive
    Messages: 19

    Sorry for any confusion from the posts. Let me rephrase:
    The Mag you are buying is just too expensive to use as a prewetting agent-- if you can make salt brine, buy lcc for .20 per gallon-- or Mag for .20 a gallon then all of them will accomplish what you seek. Out of Mag, Calcium or sodium--Mag has the least amount of bonding to water molecules so--it is least effective simply because the water carries the least amount of chlorides. We are all buying chloride content in the water (lbs of salt per gallon). We get well brine at about 26% concentration during cold weather days. Salt brine is about 23.5% concentration and Mag is aout 18% concentration. In effect the concentration levels loosely equate to lbs of chloride in solution. So Lcc is 2.6 lbs of chloride -- sodium is 2.3 lbs of chloride and Mag is 1.8 lbs of chloride -- per gallon.

    These solutions activate the brining process of rock salt -- but add no real added overall total melting capacity as you are only adding a little bit of overall chloride to the rock salt--two seperate things to talk about. So the cheapest activator I can find is what I want to activate the rock salt. As Mark noted--all of these essentially accomplish the same thing--so use the cheapest activator--if I can get cat pss urea for free I would use it to activate the rock salt. And yes--I think for those that want to listen to the sales-pitches of the liquid suppliers and equipment sellers--you can be taken for a ride until you experience the results yourself--Mark--rememer when the idea of liquids came out--we were all supposed to salt an acre with 50 gallons or less of Lcc to melt snow--there are those that continue to make that claim.

    At 23.5% soodium concentration it takes 1 ton of salt to make about 870 gallons of brine-- $135 per ton of salt = .155 per gallon+water+time
     
  14. Icemelters

    Icemelters Inactive
    Messages: 19

    Lcc--if you can take full truck loads--great way to buy liquids in MI less than .20 per gallon for multiple suppliers--at 2.6 lbs per gallon of chlorides this equates to 770 gallons of brine to = 1 ton of salt--cost of salt = .20 x 770 = $154 per ton equivalent.

    Mag--too hard to make--too costly to buy

    Potassium--same as Mag

    Any agricultural product has been simply way to costly for any benefit to us--we were a Magic dealer, we have supplied beet juice--these are good for roadway people--not very practical in our parking lot applications

    I know everyone is looking for an answer to the price of rock salt--just remember--all we are buying is chlorides in a water solution--that's it. There is no magic to this equation--least expensive over the course of a season wins for us. In liquid solution all of these products act very much the same--IN OUR MARKETPLACE salt brine is the very cheapest to use--that's one big reason the cities around here make and use salt brine in their saddle tanks--Farmington, Wixom, Warren, Rochester Hills, Oak Park, and a few more.

    Also--if you are interested I can forward an entire OXY report to you detailing the melting abilities of the products you are researching and if you Google Farmington Hills salting--look for their slideshow on their processes--it's very good stuff
     
  15. leigh

    leigh PlowSite.com Addict
    from CT
    Messages: 1,987

    Thanks for info,I'm all set.Wasn't going to spray mag,3.50$ @ 8 gal per ton.I'm only adding it to brine @ 10%.I'm not married to mag,I'll use cal also.The problem here in ct is finding someone close to purchase from.I'm not going to use thousands of gallons,not set up for that,no need.I go through about 80 tons of salt per season so even if I sprayed all of it I would only need 500 gals or so_Or I'll just buy magic salt and live with the smell inside shop where it's stored.Salt is only 70$ a ton and magic 98$.
     
  16. Mark Oomkes

    Mark Oomkes PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 10,853

    OK, that makes more sense. I was kinda wondering why the misinformation.

    FWIW, if I could get mag cheap enough, I would consider using it. It does speed up the melting process. But it does not have the holding power that a DCS\BCS\corn steep\silk\molasses\beet juice does, but it does make salt work better.

    Yes, there are those out there still claiming ridiculously low rates for liquids, not sure what they are doing different to achieve those results, but I know it has never worked for me. Tripling that rate is more realistic.
     
  17. Defcon 5

    Defcon 5 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,673





    Don't they have any youtube videos where you can learn to get those rates down and sustain holding power????..........:whistling:






    Sorry.....Im into the Beer already
     
  18. Mark Oomkes

    Mark Oomkes PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 10,853

    You aren't sorry...................at least for being into the beer.
     
  19. slc12345

    slc12345 Member
    from CT
    Messages: 54

    Leigh,
    I am in Souhington,CT I have 6,000 gallons on of a calcium, mag blend we use for pre-treating our lots,let me know if you are interested in buying a small amount to try.
     
  20. leigh

    leigh PlowSite.com Addict
    from CT
    Messages: 1,987

    Thank you.I'll be in touch.