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Loaders and Pusher

Discussion in 'Commercial Snow Removal' started by Theshoemaker, Aug 16, 2010.

  1. Theshoemaker

    Theshoemaker Senior Member
    Messages: 206

    Hello, just want to get some insight as to how much quicker a wheel loader with a box is vs a pickup. It is commonly said that a truck with 8ft blade can plow 1 acre pr. hour, if that is the case, what about a cat 928 with a 16ft push box?? For all intent and purposes, we will say it's a mall parking lot AT NIGHT with minimal obstacles and the normal light poles.

    Skid steer with 8ft box........ ?????
    Skid with 10ft box.......... ????
    Loader with 12ft box ......... ???
    Loader with 16ft box........... ????
    Loader with 20ft box........ ????

    Any insight would be greatly appreciated!!! :waving:
  2. Matson Snow

    Matson Snow PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,985

    8Ft....1.8 acres
    10Ft.....1.9 acres

    12Ft...2.5 acres
    16Ft..3.7 acres
    20Ft...5.5 acres
    A pick-up does about one acre an hour...These figures are for a wide open lot courtesy of SIMA.....:drinkup:
  3. Theshoemaker

    Theshoemaker Senior Member
    Messages: 206

    I wonder how a skid with 8ft does 1.8/hr when a truck with 8ft blade does 1/hr. Is it because the skid is more "manuverable"??
  4. Mick76

    Mick76 2000 Club Member
    from Maine
    Messages: 2,157

    Yes..... and i believe its with a 8 foot pusher as opposed to a blade
  5. dayexco

    dayexco Senior Member
    Messages: 312

    we have a 624 deere loader, 14' homemade pusher, suburban w/7/5' plow on a 5 acre target store lot....up to 4" snow, hour and ten mins. tops.
  6. Brian Young

    Brian Young PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 3,382

    I dont think it has to do as much with speed when comparing loaders to pick ups, I think its capacity. In a typical 2-3" snow fall a couple trucks, especially with V blades might out perform a single loader . But a 6" storm the loaders are going to blow away any blade. Just my 2 cents.
  7. leon

    leon Senior Member
    Messages: 872

    snow etc.

    If you have an empty lot which is mostly not possible

    The algebra for it is not a lost cause

    Its a function of todays cost of a dollar, the return on your investment, forward speed, and pusher width, in which
    totally determines how efficient you are.

    You can estimate all you want but available power, traction, and mass against the
    total mass of 21 pounds per cubic foot of fresh snow in front of the pusher, and
    more weight per cubic foot if the snow is heavy.

    So if you have an 8 foot pusher attached to a volvo L70 with loaded tires which are a must and
    a half mile of clear pushing which is 2640 feet by 8 feet times 21 pounds of snow which is
    222 tons of snow to push somewhre and a skid loader will have to lift and lose some of its load
    in order to be able to advance.

    A backhoe loader of 3 to 4 tons bucket capacity with a motorised snow blower with be more cost effective,
    as it can be installed on a large four wheel drive back hoe with no issues.

    the other issues are your return on investment as a snow blower leaves little if anything to clean up and offers you more opportunity to remove snow almost everywhere.
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2010
  8. dayexco

    dayexco Senior Member
    Messages: 312

    no issues, other than broken glass, scratched vehicles...and just how do you blow snow 2400' ahead of you, if you can't blow it sideways because of occupied properties both ways?
  9. leon

    leon Senior Member
    Messages: 872

    snow etc.

    Snow directed in a linear fashion stays within the line area of the auger housing at all times as long as the spout is directed downward and is done by a lot of municipalities.

    NO, no broken glass, or scratched vehicles if the operator pays attention to what he or she is doing oprates in a slow forward speed , and as the spout and chute are designed for this job.
    it is directing mass flow discharge in front and down in front of the blower avoids all these issues at all times.

    Its done on the european railroads and highways with snow clearers during the snow season no matter the depth.

    It is a common practice on many roadways as the snow is constantly being thrown forward at all times and does not block egress and or discharge.

    And as you park in large parking lot at your own risk its not much of a front burner issue with the lot owner :nono:

    SNOWLORD Senior Member
    from MN
    Messages: 610

    The wheel loaders will really start to shine the deeper the snow gets.
  11. C.Csnowdivision

    C.Csnowdivision Junior Member
    from wyoming
    Messages: 4

    Mick76. You always seem to have good information; therefore, I wanted to ask your advise on something. I am going to buy an Arctic sectional this year to put on our Case 580SM. We will do smaller commercial lots, banks, stores, etc. Nothing as big as Wal Mart I'm sure. Do you have a light duty Arctic on your loader or HD? I will have to go 10' LD to stay under 12' to road it (a must). I could go 12 HD as it is only 11' instead of 13' overall on the 12'LD. Is 10' LD just too little plow to send down the road with that machine? Also, I am looking at expanding a little more. We do excavation and have mostly equipment. We have a 1986 F-150 in the company for the hands to use in the summer. Do I dare put a 7'6" plow on that to get around town quicker and service smaller accounts and keep equip. in one area of bigger lots? I also thought about buying another 3/4 ton or one ton as I don't want a plow on my personal one ton. Another option, is to buy another sectional and keep it on Bobcat 853 in town or haul everything on trailers all the time. My last option is to have a guy sub for me with his Case 580M. If so, what percentages are fair for subs in snow market, as I haven't used them in snow? Should I let him buy the sectional and take a straight percentage or should I buy the plow, take a per push rate and pay him hourly equip. time? Thank you.
  12. jomama45

    jomama45 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,172

    Ah, forget it, I'll let someone else cover this................................... :)
  13. Mick76

    Mick76 2000 Club Member
    from Maine
    Messages: 2,157

    I have a 14' HD... seems your already aware of the travel issues you'd have in the state so I'd call Arctic direct and see which pusher size will be best in your situation. I'm sure the amount of snow you'd be pushing will effect the size also... every 2" or at the end of the event? , lot sizes are also a huge consideration..... I know JD Dave didn't like the LD's but I think it was more operator error then the plow... I'd ask his take on them also but I personally love them... no issues and they work like a dream!
    personally I'm one for buying equipment as you can deduct the cost to purchase it on your taxes... rent is a waste of money IMO and others feel completely the opposite... I'm sure they'll chime in...lol..... IMO the 86 is too old and not enough truck for commercial work... i'd go out and buy a good used 3/4 or one ton (I just did this) ...
    The bobcat Idea is a good one if your accounts are close to one another. I personall yreally like plowing with a skid steer... IMO twice as effects as plowing with a truck.... but you can't take them far unless you trailer them... kind of a pita druing a snow storm....arctic on a bobcat would work great....
    sub pay varies greatly on regions... you can do it either way in terms of the set up and pay just make sure If you do it this way, that hes INSURED and understands hes responsible for the lots he plow!..... in terms of slip and falls that is......

  14. JohnnyRoyale

    JohnnyRoyale 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,935

    A friend of mine has a 12 ft LD on a Case 580 Super M and it handles it very well.
  15. viper881

    viper881 Senior Member
    Messages: 450

    Pushers are great in a lot of aspects. They can clear lots very quick when comparing it to trucks. But you also have to have accounts all pretty close by to justify having one. A truck give have accounts a lot further apart then a loader or skid steer.
  16. Rich Arlington

    Rich Arlington Member
    Messages: 76

    Remember the key to production rates is not necessarily the equipment. it is the operator.

    a good operator in a plow truck can do 1 acre in 40 - 45 min. however a new or bad operator may take 1.5 hours to an acre
  17. salopez

    salopez Senior Member
    Messages: 873

    possibly but at the expense to the longevity of your truck.

    Remember when you put someone else in your machine, they dont care... doesnt matter how much they say they do...

    You need to supply them with the easiest more efficient machine to keep your maintenance costs down.
  18. TCLA

    TCLA 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,696

    I was wondering when the huge variable to production rates gets mentioned....the operator! :nod:
  19. Neige

    Neige Sponsor
    Messages: 2,195

    We have 2 JCb s with 8/13 extenable pushers, they handle them no problem. These pushers can be roaded at 8 feet, and you can open them as large as 13 feet. Here is a video of one late early this spring. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8i5UF4Ybas8
    you can check out their website http://www.fabshoule.com/arctic_small_an.htm
    True enough, once you start having to drive more than 5 miles, you start losing lots of time. The other thing with a back hoe you can push snow for years, and have not much expenses in maintenance. Trucks can become very costly over time.

    Thats why there are so many variables to look at. The operator is the biggest including time, equipment breakdowns, property damage, etc.
  20. DGODGR

    DGODGR Senior Member
    from s/w co
    Messages: 639

    If you buy the plow than who will pay to make repairs, and fix wear items. If you do some research, in this forum, you will see that the Arctic plows can have problems if they are not operated correctly. If I sub out any work, the sub will have the necessary equipment to get the job done.