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loader with wing vs. truck with wing???

Discussion in 'Commercial Snow Removal' started by redneckhershey, Sep 4, 2010.

  1. redneckhershey

    redneckhershey Junior Member
    Messages: 6

    i am bidding on 33 km of subdivision roads and was wondering what would be better for plowing. there are some long hills and being in a subdivision slow plowing speed is a must. i would love to buy a loader with a plow and wing because of it manueverability and seing how i can use it in the off season. however i am not sure with the slow speed and long hills if it with have enought traction, maybe chains or snow plus tires needed??. these 4 hills are about 2 kms long each and you would soon loose any momentum and rely totally on traction. on the other hand a truck with plow and wing and side sander might be more suited since i could sand in front of the rear wheels for more traction.
    i know a truck would work but would rather invest in a loader if i knew it would do the job.
     
  2. leon

    leon Senior Member
    Messages: 872

    subdivision saga

    You would be bettor off with a small road grader- not the toy ones used for small asphault jobs.

    33 kilometers

    66 kilometer lane miles
    ===================

    20.5 miles of road

    41 lane miles
    ===================
    219,120 feet of lane asphault to plow

    If you leased or purchased a six by six road grader from Volvo like the G630 model you could have the tires loaded with rim guard or windshield washer fluid, rear wieghts and chains you will have a machine that would have no issues with traction and will work slowly for you. leaving a clean road.

    The road grader has better visibility as the operators platform is up high with plenty of lighting and you would be able to add a HID lighting system from www.HID.com and you can put a V plow up front and a wing on the grader as well as using the belly blade plowing the road with a smaller amount of snow left to remove.

    The road grader will have 6 wheel traction at all times for plowing with no issues about the roads rise and run.

    Pushing back snow banks will be easier for the grader as the operator can back up and wing back high piles where it would be more work for a loader

    belly blade has a 12 foot width and you will be able to scrape with wieght and traction at the same time
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Sep 5, 2010
  3. Neige

    Neige Sponsor
    Messages: 2,197

    I would go for the truck with the sander. Will you be the one who has to salt or sand the roads as well?
     
  4. Grn Mtn

    Grn Mtn PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,644

    of course I just threw out the magazine ( can't remember if it was snow, or landscape mgt, or a different trade one) but there was a company that is producing a new heavy duty vehicle for (municipalities) snow plowing, its big but can turn around in a 2 lane road. they mentioned it could do cul-de-sacs no problem. sorry I don't have more info but it sounds like it would be perfect for what you need.
     
  5. cmo18

    cmo18 Senior Member
    Messages: 815

    loader and chains if you need to go slow. IMO single axle truck will spin out going uphill slow. Loader might as well but at least you can maneuver yourself, relocate snow and start fresh.


    and if you have work for it all year round
     
  6. redneckhershey

    redneckhershey Junior Member
    Messages: 6

    yes i also have to dand and salt, so a truck with wing would be killing two birds with one stone.
    i hate the thought off plowing all night in a tandem truck. the visibility sucks manuverability sucks it makes for an even longer night, especially in subdivisions.
    maybe i will get a used loader and a used plow truck with sander. that way i will have both and a backup if needed
     
  7. leon

    leon Senior Member
    Messages: 872

    sub division

    Leasing the the grader will be much less costly to lease and easier to use,

    The operators cabin will have plenty of glass area to see all around it as well

    as I mentioned before.


    And then sand or salt after the plowing that way you will not have wasted any

    material from overspreading and having lost any material.


    If you use a 4 wheel drive tractor with a very large pendulum spreader on a tow cart

    you will waste less salt and the added sand will be a bonus as it wil add much traction for the route.

    You could install a pendulum spreader on the rear of grader easily if you buy a spreader that is hydraulic drive.
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2010
  8. Neige

    Neige Sponsor
    Messages: 2,197

    If you think a plow truck is slow wait till you go up one of those two km hills. You will be able to walk faster than the loader. You have 4 of those hills, just think of the time it will take to do them. You might not want to hear this, but the truck with the sander is your best option. Sorry Leon, but the last thing he will want is to be pulling a sanding trailer. It would be a real PITA when backing up, + it will do no good if you need to get sand or salt under your tires.
     
  9. leon

    leon Senior Member
    Messages: 872

    subdivision saga continues

    About the Volvo G690 grader
    food for thought

    8 speed or 11 speed automatic transmission with single speed only in each speed
    19.5 or 22.9 miles per hour

    37 kilometers per hour or 44 or 48 kilometers per hour rough top speed with the 14. or 17.5 tires
    with the 8 or eleven speed transmissions

    So if you plowed with a speed of 37 kilometers per hour it would take you a little under two hours to plow at the lower top end speed for both lanes and an hour and fourty six minutes at the
    top speed for the faster automatic transmission depending upon tire size.

    "A" wing would allow you to plow in one pass-(traffic dependent) and cut the plowing time in half, not including the culdesacs.

    The belly blade could be returned to center and the cul de sacs plowed which is no different than what a plow truck would do anyway.
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2010
  10. plowatnight

    plowatnight Senior Member
    from Mn
    Messages: 305

    Hey Leon, does the belly blade risk removing the road surface making the contractor liable? Our city crew uses a big quarry loader w/ a 4way blade on the loader boom and a wing blade and it is one SWEET machine takes about an18 -20 ft. whack. I wanna say average plowing speed approx.15mph give or take. I don't think it slows down much though. (Lots o power) This way you can use the big bucket for move back as well as summer work. Just a thought
     
  11. leon

    leon Senior Member
    Messages: 872

    snow plowing

    If the pour was done with out a serious heavy rolling job I suppose its possible but
    when you see an "Austin Western" for example scraping and plowing and throwing sparks the blades getting more wear than the pavement for sure.

    Your not putting down pressure on it as if you were cutting a terrace or a bevel in a ditch with the blade half way in the ditch as the blade is just floating on the road bed like the belly blade on a plow truck.

    The other issue is whether its a base coat only but a set of skid shoes would solve that too since there is only gravity and the blades weight to deal with .



    I would be very, very, very, surprised if they no longer have float setting on the 2 hoist circuit valves controlling these cylinders on the blade circle.
    :mechanic:
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2010
  12. rob_cook2001

    rob_cook2001 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,181

    I think someone really likes graders hahah
     
  13. JohnnyRoyale

    JohnnyRoyale 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,935

    Lots of graders being used around here. They work well, but a little slow, and have never seen one pull a salter before.

    Leons right about the visibility.

    I'd have to agree with Paul on the truck option. Plow and salt in one pass.
     
  14. jayman3

    jayman3 Senior Member
    Messages: 372

    I would also agree with Neige on this one ,get a single axle truck with a two way plow with a wing,get some chains and then you are in business,a load of grit and the chains it would take alot of snow to stop that.
     
  15. Grn Mtn

    Grn Mtn PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,644

    found it!

    as luck would have it I found the article under a pile a paper on the counter, here is the link:
    http://www.snowequipmentsales.com/powerplat.html
     
  16. leon

    leon Senior Member
    Messages: 872

    loader and wing etc.

    Its a relabeled Schmitd grouop plow and salter If IRC And I think it retails at $160,000 USD
     
  17. plowatnight

    plowatnight Senior Member
    from Mn
    Messages: 305

    How about a GM 5500 4x4 or my personal Fav., ...... Unimog !
     
  18. Oshkosh

    Oshkosh PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,655

    The perfect equipment?

    One of everything would be perfect...
    Loaders (544,928 size range) are maneuverable and have great visibility but are painfully slow pushing uphill.Would need chains as they tend to spin and slide very easily in wet heavy packing snow especially on any grade.Great for loading and pushing back points etc.Add a pusher and clean up would be a breeze.I have heard from several sources allot of road driving kills the torque converters$$$.
    Graders are all most snow country states are using for pushing back now,very powerful and great traction,still will need to chain up ditch side ,very efficient but most decent machines are very expensive.A great option if you get into grading gravel etc in the warm months.
    With either of the above you will still need a truck to apply materials.....Plus something to load the truck as well...
    Depending on the width of the roads etc I am partial to the snow fighters(FWD,Oshkosh,Walter) type of trucks setup with a wing spreader and belly blade could take care of just about anything you would need.Throw in a one ton for the tight places.The snow fighter could push a 16' width with both blades down and then cut bankings and push back post storm cleanup.You'd have decent road speed most mechanical parts available locally etc.Then there is the what do you do with it in the warm months?Work on it and get it ready for the next winter...
    Are you responsible for cleaning out driveways after pushing back? Still should have a loader.How about snow removal? How far is your material stock pile from the development? Sidewalks? Drainage,culverts,basins? Hydrants or fire ponds?
    I think we all can agree on one thing, there is no one perfect rig...
    Should have a backup rig also or someone ready to cover when you equipment breaks down.
    It will break down...Maybe something as simple as a $20 hose but down time is down time and people want their roads cleared.A simple little hose at 4am @ 20 degrees, laying in the slush with salt dripping in your eyes isn't a five minute job .
    They don't call it blood money for nothing....

    TOJ 2-15-08 006.jpg
     
  19. mercer_me

    mercer_me PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 6,361

    Since you have to sand also you should get a a truck with a plow and wing. A front dump sander would be ideal for hills IMO.