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Loader questions

Discussion in 'Commercial Snow Removal' started by John Mac, Dec 18, 2008.

  1. John Mac

    John Mac Senior Member
    Messages: 374

    For you guys with loaders or even tractors I need all the help I can get. Had a request from a long time customer to take over the snow removal of a very large lot they own. I am currently plowing for them by the hour with my pick up and spend about 4 hour at this location for a 2 to 3" storm and plow about 1/5 of the parking lot. They have been doing the rest with their own trucks and they just can't keep up with the snow. I suggested to them to hire us to do the whole parking lot with a large loader by the hour and their guys can just do the sidewalks and salting. I am thinking about at least a 3 yrd loader, I have a $50,000 budget.

    1) What size pusher can you use, I am thinking 16'
    2) What size tractor would you need for a 16' pusher and can buy this tractor with 50k
    3) Don't need tractor for summer but can use a loader for summer work.
    4) Does $250 per hour sound about rite.?
    5) Does any one have a 3 yrd loader for sale?
    6) Would a tool carrier be an option?
    7) How much fuel difference between a 3 yrd and 4 to 5 yrd loader
    8) Any other advise you can offer ?

    Thank you.
     
  2. J.E. Hoenig

    J.E. Hoenig Junior Member
    Messages: 6

    I'm also in NY I have a Michigan 125C and a Terex 7261AA both with 6 yard buckets and 16' pushers,I get $250 hr for each the 125C has a 6V71 Detroit and burns about 5 gallons of fuel an hour at full bore and the Terex has a 8V92 Detroit that is turbocharged and supercharged and burns about 8 gallons an hour at full bore but is also pretty unstopable.
    To run 16' pushers and larger you need heavy machines.Luckly diesel fuel dropped in price just before the season got kicked off. I don't know how far north you are but in Albany were looking at back to back large storms.
    Also with 16' or larger pushers you need a pretty flat lot to keep scraping down to pavement.
     
  3. John Mac

    John Mac Senior Member
    Messages: 374

    I friend of mine said a 14' pusher but I thought bigger is better, maybe not? So what you talking about is like a Kawasaki 900 size machine with a 6 yrd bucket. I was looking at a Case 621C today about 30,000 lbs. If i stay to a 3 to 4 yrd machine I could use it for site work in the summer, a pit loader could be to big. My pricing per hour sounds good. 5 to 8 gal/hr would be about $25 to $30 per hour so sounds about rite. This will be my first loader so thanks for the help. Big storm here also, I am in the Utica area so should be a good weekend.
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2008
  4. 04superduty

    04superduty PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,354

    what is the size of the lot? any obstacles like light poles or islands?
     
  5. sk187

    sk187 Senior Member
    Messages: 327

    1) What size pusher can you use, I am thinking 16'
    16 is most common for a 3 yd loader, 18 collects to much snow to push if its heavy and 14 is a bit small.

    2) What size tractor would you need for a 16' pusher and can buy this tractor with 50k
    Get a loader

    3) Don't need tractor for summer but can use a loader for summer work.
    Get a loader

    4) Does $250 per hour sound about rite.?
    In Michigan we are less then 150 a hr for snow

    5) Does any one have a 3 yrd loader for sale?
    All over the place

    6) Would a tool carrier be an option?
    It would work

    7) How much fuel difference between a 3 yrd and 4 to 5 yrd loader
    There is a pretty big difference in fuel economy not just between different sized loaders but also different year loaders. New loaders have different tier engines mainly for fuel economy and emissions.

    8) Any other advise you can offer ?
    Why not just rent a loader and box places like cat will rent them at a decent monthly winter price.

    Another option would be to find a local excavator to plow the lot pay him 100 a hr and charge the place 150+

    There are lots of options, but I wouldnt buy a loader unless you have plenty of use for it because you will not recoup you 50,000 in a winter.
     
  6. forestfireguy

    forestfireguy PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,276

    I agree with not buying unless you have other uses for the machine and or could get your client to sign up for a mulit(3yr+) year contract. This way at least if your other uses don't pan out you will still recoup your expense and profit from the machine. Not in the same league pushing as a 3-5 yd loader but a large 4x4 backhoe like say a 420 cat or similar is an animal with a pusher definitely 12' maybe 14' depending on your machine and would it be a better year round choice? I don't know your business but if you're thinking tool carrier why not a backhoe? Anyway whatever you do good luck 250 hr is good money, NY metro area we're getting 250 hr for stacking/moving add on work, onsite machines about 175-200 hr.
     
  7. John Mac

    John Mac Senior Member
    Messages: 374

    Thanks SK, I am the local excavator, just don't own a loader do all my loading out with an excavator, although could use a loader. I would pay the loader off in two winter seasons not to mention the sumer months. My thinking is that a loader is basic equipment if you are going to be in the snow biz, just waiting for a job big enough to justify it. I like to purchase equipment if I can, hate to rent, no equity in renting. Loader rentals are about $3000 to $4000 a month times 5, so at least $15,000. $15,000 would be a good down payment. I could pay the loader of in about 2 years from just snow from this one parking lot after overhead. Pretty much made up my mind on purchase just looking for advise on what size and what size pusher.
    SK, did you rent or buy your loaders? $150 per hour is cheap, it's $100 per hour for a pickup truck here.

    SuperDuty the lot is wide open.

    Forest guy, I asked for a 3 year commitment. Thought about a backhoe but a loader and excavator in the summer would work better just because I have a excavator at all the jobs I do. I also have about 10,000 yards of topsoil that I would like to sell some day and need a loader to load screening plant some day, when I buy a screening plant.
    Forest guy did you rent or buy your loaders? Your pricing is much better, I have a OK at $200 to $250 depending on hours, still have to work out details but no less than $200.00
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2008
  8. John Mac

    John Mac Senior Member
    Messages: 374

    Any suggestions on a pusher. Trip edge, steel, poly etc? Looking at a 2001 case 621c, quick att, 4 in 1, 5300 hrs.
     
  9. TRKling

    TRKling Member
    Messages: 64

    I am baised, but the Daniel Wing Plows are the bomb. They are pricey, but damn they are worth it -- not to mention, transportable if you have other lots in the area. Get the 16ft wing, breaks down to a 10ft which will go down the road.

    We have two loaders and they're awesome to plow in - the speed, torque and visibility are worth it. Check out machinerytrader.com for machines - there's hidden gems in the mix.
     
  10. John Mac

    John Mac Senior Member
    Messages: 374

    Just ball park how $ are we talking 16' steel trip compared to a Danials Wing. The machine I am looking at has a ACS quick attach.
    Machine Trader I use for all the time, great reference. I could go to action if timing works out.
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2008
  11. onsight

    onsight Senior Member
    Messages: 160

    A 621 Case will handle a 14' pusher just fine. I have a Protech 14' Foldable on mine. If you don't need to road your loader from account to account - you can save a couple of dollars by getting a non-foldable one.

    12-19-08.jpg
     
  12. Superior L & L

    Superior L & L PlowSite Veteran
    from MI
    Messages: 3,039

    Id go with a 16' on the 621. We ran 20'ers on 721's and they didnt stop
     
  13. John Mac

    John Mac Senior Member
    Messages: 374

    621 is just about 30,000lbs, correct?
     
  14. Little Jon

    Little Jon Senior Member
    from Buffalo
    Messages: 139

    how much do one of those foldable ones cost?
     
  15. Snowplow71

    Snowplow71 Senior Member
    Messages: 284

    I have the 621's and run 14's on it. We got the 621 B non XT from a guy with 8 loaders, all 621's and 1 721, he run's all 14 foot on the 621's and 16 foot on the 721'. You don't want to work the death out of the machine. You can go a little faster with a 14, and its easier on the machine, were as a 16 would work the machine pretty good and you would go slower.

    Also around here $125 an hour for a loader is the price. Wish I could get $250!!
     
  16. onsight

    onsight Senior Member
    Messages: 160

    I paid just over 6000 for mine this past fall
     
  17. ServiceOnSite

    ServiceOnSite Senior Member
    Messages: 935

    what is the number of hours to stay away from on a loader with out a rebuild? i know most stay away from skid steers with 2000 hours+ from a concrete company. just wondering if there is a magic number with loader too??