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Lets build a liquid sprayer

Discussion in 'Ice Management' started by elite1msmith, Aug 21, 2008.

  1. elite1msmith

    elite1msmith 2000 Club Member
    from chicago
    Messages: 2,762

    Now, first every one here needs to realize, i have very limited experiance with liquids.

    Number 2 - im building this on a budget, and mostly with spare parts i have laying around. for this reason understand, IF i think the cost effectiveness is worth it, then i might decide to buy a larger, more professional rig, until then , this is the way i would like to TRY, as an EXPERIMENT ...so please understand im not going to be wasting money on expensive pumps and motors, till i see how i like it

    I would like as much imput as possible =) all ideas are welcome :nod: :drinkup:


    if i do my math correctly , and if some one could check it .....let me know

    If i have a 7 GPM pump flow, and i want to apply at 30 gals per acre, with a 10 foot boom,

    i would need to drive at about 10 mph? does this seem right to you? , is the application rate correct?

    I know 10 mph isnt super fast, but it isnt slow either and should get the job done, for experimental purpuses

    I will be using two - 3.8 GPM electric pumps, as i have one already sitting around.... my reasoning is simple. instead of speading money for elec. valves, i can just turn the pumps on and off , which worked good on a lawn sprayer i use to use..... i will have pressure gauges for both pumps, and i will be mounting them to my back rack, so that i can turn around in the cab to read the pressure....

    for now pressure regulation will be done with a shut off valve. as i have a feeling it will run wide open 90% of the time anyway

    nozzels, i dont really have a clue... should i use a stream spray ? i know the wind is going to be a big factor, a steam might be better ... i was thinking a total of 20 nozzels? which would make it ever 6 inches? 7 foot boom , with the last two nozzels,on each side being angle outword...

    any thoughts from any one?
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2008
  2. hydro_37

    hydro_37 PlowSite Veteran
    from iowa
    Messages: 3,790

    Try and find someone that has nozzles you can maybe try for a test.
    At 10mph I would think the stream would work good but trial and error will get you the right pressure and nozzle. Now would be the best time to try it with just water and see how it sprays. (just my thoughts)
    I may be trying something like this soon too. Keep us posted please.
     
  3. We apply at about 10mph. Our trash pump is on a 5 or 6 hp honda. I don't know the gpm off the top of my head...What kind of liquid will you we using?
     
  4. elite1msmith

    elite1msmith 2000 Club Member
    from chicago
    Messages: 2,762

    not sure either? brine , will more than likely be the base control tester

    from what i have read , you sould be applying it at 30 gallons per ACRE ? what do you apply at?
     
  5. elite1msmith

    elite1msmith 2000 Club Member
    from chicago
    Messages: 2,762

    i know the boom sprayer i had (cheap one) , 7 nozzels, 3.8 pump, (which was putting out abour 3 GPM at 40 psi, 10 foot boom, 1 gal per 1000sqft was about 3 mph

    so thats 45 gallons per acre..... so two pumps would be 90 gallons per acre, or if you mulitply the speed by 3 , then you apply 30 gals, per acre 9 mph..and again i think i could have gotten more flow out of it
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2008
  6. amscontr

    amscontr Junior Member
    Messages: 14

    How about a Hypro D503 GRGI/B7S 8.5 hp motor pump would that make a good sprayer set up? It was used for a sprayer at a golf course,I was just kind of curious,I'm not to familiar with sprayers(if you can't tell).
     
  7. We apply Magic at 25-35 gallon per acre. More to start and less as we get into the season.
     
  8. elite1msmith

    elite1msmith 2000 Club Member
    from chicago
    Messages: 2,762

    sounds good, but im no expert
     
  9. elite1msmith

    elite1msmith 2000 Club Member
    from chicago
    Messages: 2,762

    ok i had some one smart ...lol double check my math, and we both aggreed that 30 gals, per acre at a flow of 7 gpm, would be about 11.5 mph...
     
  10. elite1msmith

    elite1msmith 2000 Club Member
    from chicago
    Messages: 2,762

    Last edited: Aug 22, 2008
  11. powerjoke

    powerjoke PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,341

    wow.....where do i start lol

    ok first of all

    you only care about P.S.I. in one place...at the boom

    you will need more than 2 3.8gpm pumps because you are going to have some preasure loss, and what i mean by that is. the boom is going to stay under preasure.....like 20 p.s.i. becouse you want more pump than you have nzzle or you cant meter the liquid if it's dribbling out of the nozzle, let the nozzle be youre flow restrictor not a ball valve...unless you have plent of presure then you need a flow regulator

    you are going to want a streamjet yes but you neet one ofr "fertilizer banding" that has a single orriface in it, liquid works it's best if it's in a stream or pool so it has enough weight to it so it can "burn" below the ice........unless it's a pretreat and then you would want a fan nozzle

    youre speed will be determined on what youre boom p.s.i. is not how much youre pump can pump it a wood chuck could chuck wood lol :drinkup:

    you only need nozzles every 10 inches any farther, no good , any closer, overkill (and you dont have enough pump btw)

    check out my thread on "calcium chloride sprayer" http://www.plowsite.com/showthread.php?t=56651&highlight=chloride

    this year i bought a 450 gal with a hydraulic driven centrifigul 1.5 pump so we'll be using the 5500 and the toolcat

    i am not saying you have to spend as much money as i did but....what i am saying is that this system works verry well and it covers 18feet..........this year it has a GPS lightbar on it lol and be on the toolcat and stay onsite \


    you wont need to regulate youre flow with a ball valve lol


    if you are going to just turn the pumps on and off you will have to have anti-siphon nozzle bodies wich have a 5p.s.i. drop to them (they take 5 psi to open so it "robs" 5psi from youre boom) and

    it also helps if you know a little about farm spraying,.....let youre pumps and chemical dictate youre nozzle selection

    10 foot boom is way too much for this setup........you need more like a 36" boom lol

    8'wide and one mile long is ~one acre i think 46,358sq feet

    so here is what i propose, cheap and hopefully effective also..... plumb everything in 1.5" poly, put a 1.5" poly ball valve NOT SOLONOID and then use youre boom as youre nozzles and start by drilling a 3/16 inch hole in it for a nozzle, just let it gravity feed you'll be fine....you may have to go clear up to a 1/2 inch hole before youre done lol. drill youre holes every 10" or whatever falls on a even spread on about 8'

    use a big enough tank so that you have at least a 1.5" bung in it or all will be lost.

    hope this helps

    if you have any Q's call me and i'll help you with what i know, even though it aint much

    later tonight i'll try to post some pics of what i am talking about.....i am setting here in the dark right now lol

    Rick/PJ
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2008
  12. elite1msmith

    elite1msmith 2000 Club Member
    from chicago
    Messages: 2,762

    i will give that a thought.... and i did alread look at your 18 foot prior

    my question ... and im not doubting ur knowlege, you must have more experiance than i do at this point

    i already have a 10 foot boom sprayer, rigged up to a mower that i dont use..... it has 7 nozzles... and a 3.8 pump. it can hold pressure at the boom 60 psi max, then an electronic switch cuts it off.... i run it at 40 psi, and at about 3 mph , is 45 gals per acre.... the nozzles are fine mist...so they drift alot, and i would need to try others. but if i drove at 5 mph, that would be 30 gals per acre, and i have timed/measured this units out put

    so y couldnt i just double up the pump and nozzels? i realize y i wouldnt want to max out the pump, and would rather have the nozzels be the ristriction point ..

    i could put the pressure gauge towards the boom , simple enough

    anti-sifon? if i was spraying chemical on food cropps, you know i might consder it... but this little boom srayer doesnt have one, and it seems to do just fine ? i think. granted , you do have to give the pump 2 seconds to catch up to the nozzles,...so out put for the first 2 seconds isnt the greatest. they dont drip either,
     
  13. powerjoke

    powerjoke PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,341

    Build the damn thing then...what do i iknow :dizzy:

    20" spacing is typacle

    do you even know what type of nozzles you have?.....what color are they?who makes them? what is the name of them?..

    and first of all.....water is 8.3lb/gal and chloride is (depending on what you want) 10-12lb/gal use conversion factor in pic1

    where the nozzles come into play is in pic2

    PJ
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2009
  14. purpleranger519

    purpleranger519 Senior Member
    from Kansas
    Messages: 536

    I'm thinkin PJ knows what he is talkin about. Just a hunch
     
  15. elite1msmith

    elite1msmith 2000 Club Member
    from chicago
    Messages: 2,762

    i dont doubt PJ at all in what he knows

    well i did some experimentation ....

    i put the sprayer on a sufer, wired it back up, drilled holes in the nozzles with the smalles size drill bit that i had laying around- which i thought was kinda large....

    the best i could come up with was 5 nozzles, with 1 pump, so twice that, at power jokers recomendations -10 inch spacing , would give me an 8 foot boom..... 8 feet , isnt 10 ...but a few of my plows are around 8 feet, so its something to think about

    1 pump, with my drilled nozzels emptyed 5 gals in 1 min 37 seconds approx. that would mean that to cover an acre with 30 gals, would take about 5 mins (2 pumps) 8 foot boom, would mean a travel speed of around 11 mph, rounding

    i didnt measure the distance traveled by the machine, but i assume its close to 7 mph, ill post pics, below, just for laughs.... the nozzel spacing in the pics is 20 inches. with 1 pump....so basicly double it up and you get the idea

    there isnt much room for any adjustment, with this and more or less it would be operating at max at all times.. of course if i had the proper nozzels, i might have come up with a little more results, .... PSI was around 17 lbs... too low, but different nozzels, might fix that

    ill reconsider if im going to use a gas motor, or try with the 2 pumps, just at first... i would rahter stay all electric, because my workers are not as mechanicly inclinded as you would like them too be at times.... electric is simple... and no gas

    if any one finds a large 12v pump let me know
     
  16. elite1msmith

    elite1msmith 2000 Club Member
    from chicago
    Messages: 2,762

    ok, picutre problems, they will have to wait... i was thinking about using the " red or brown" nozzels? the holes that i drilled were more along the lines of the Light Blue or white colors

    any help? it shouldnt matter which way i go with my pump (gas or electric) i should still need the smae nozzles at 10 inches apart
     
  17. Snowpower

    Snowpower Senior Member
    Messages: 636

    Powerjoke.

    Why not a solenoid system to contol the boom that can be run from the cab? Does the brine kill the solenoids?

    And how much baffeling is in your tanks. How does your truck "Plow" with a half tank of mix?
     
  18. elite1msmith

    elite1msmith 2000 Club Member
    from chicago
    Messages: 2,762

    i think he ment just use manuel valves to keep the cost down for try/ error..

    he has solenoids on his,...nice setup
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2008
  19. elite1msmith

    elite1msmith 2000 Club Member
    from chicago
    Messages: 2,762

    im kinda likeing PJ, gravity feed idea.... super cheap, super easy for dumb ppl to work on ...... do you think it would have enought force,to keep the "stream " in tacked for 20 inches...if your driving at 10 mph, while the tank starts to get low?
     
  20. powerjoke

    powerjoke PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,341

    ELITE: you can buy a calibration jug for about $10 just to keep an eye on it.

    if youre going to make youre own brine,,......i have done that too and had mixed result's. it is not as good as mag whitch is not as good as calcium though.....and you can buy the stuff almost as cheap as you can make it.

    pj