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Is the loader to heavy?

Discussion in 'Commercial Snow Removal' started by QuadPlower, Aug 7, 2007.

  1. QuadPlower

    QuadPlower PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,056

    I'm looking at bidding a large, open parking area, around 10 acres. One of the vehicles I'm looking at is a '78 Michigan 175 loader with 5 cuyd bucket + the largest box blade I can afford. I talked with the current owner and he said that he hauls it on a 20 ton LowBoy. He had no idea of the weight, but figured it was close to the 20 tons.

    My question: Is a 20 ton loader going to mess up the pavement by driving on it all winter pushing snow?

    I know all about location dictating price, but does anybody have an hourly rate for a loader like that with a large box blade?

    Any help will be appreciated
     
  2. itsgottobegreen

    itsgottobegreen PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,351

    $250-$350 an hour depending on location. And thats for a 16' protech on the front. If you start to get too wide of a protech, you start to run into problems of it scraping clean if the parking lot is unlevel.
     
  3. hyperpack

    hyperpack Senior Member
    Messages: 108

    Heavy Loader

    I would be worried about such a heavy rig early and late season when the ground is not froze rutting pavement and breaking sidewalks. I have a 16,000 pound loader with a 11 foot pusher that is much taller than a Protech so I suspect it is about the same to push as a 14 foot or so. I cracked a few sidewalks with that machine early one season. I think the tonnage of the Michigan may be overkill for less than a 20+ foot blade, Plus tire chains are very expensive for the big wide tires, With chains on my little rig I can outplow a 644 Deere without chains, When the snow is wet and heavy them big tires don't pull much.
    Hyperpack
     
  4. Mark Oomkes

    Mark Oomkes PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 10,853

    I've seen one time in the past 20+ years that chains would've been required on loaders and\or trucks. Bad, nasty storm. It was pouring rain at 10* after 3 inches of snow pellets. Rain soaked right through, hit the cold ground and turned into around 2" of ice. Couldn't go over approx 15 MPH on some roads without sliding right off.

    Anyways, how old is the lot? What is the current condition? Good base, i.e. reputable contractor installed the base and pavement? If you rut it when the frost is coming out, somebody didn't do their job on installation, but they won't care about that.

    In theory it should be fine, but we all know about theories. Sorta like assumptions.
     
  5. QuadPlower

    QuadPlower PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,056

    The last time I remeber ice like that was in '76. School was canceled for a week. I would never run chains around here anyway. I think it might even be against the law, but not sure.

    After reading itsgottobegreen's post about width I realized that the size of box blade I was thinking I wanted to use with this monster would not work. The parking lot is just not that even. It would have been fun using a 55,000 pound tractor with a 30' box blade pushing the snow out of the way in about 15 passes.

    I am now looking at more county/dot plow trucks with 13' blades and salt spreaders.

    As stated before, I know about location and price, but does any body have any idea on an hourly rate for something like that? Pushing snow and salting.
     
  6. itsgottobegreen

    itsgottobegreen PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,351

    a 16' you still will be fine. Most people I know run 14-18' loader models for this reason. You still can get a lot of snow removed fast with a 16' box. I ran a 20' on a cat 988 back a long time ago. But that was on a very flat parking lot. Most of the 20-30' protechs you see on airports.
     
  7. salopez

    salopez Senior Member
    Messages: 873

    Honestly most guys running wheel loaders that big with boxes are not charging per house. they are charging per inch or per push. The reason is that they are so productive. in order to make it worth your wild you would have to charge huge dollars per hour to make it up.

    you can plow about 5 acres per hour with a 16foot pusher. use this to figure out how you want to bid it. thats about 5 trucks or 2.5skids with 8 foot pushers...
     
  8. QuadPlower

    QuadPlower PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,056

    I still would like a loader with a 16' pusher. Just not that loader. Really the only reason I was looking at it is because its in my town, and only $9,000.

    I don't want to doubt you salopez, but could someone confirm that a 16' pusher could do 5 acres an hour. That would mean that I could knock out this job in 2 hours + salting + sidewalks.

    With the hour rate, I just wanted a guess to get me started on a price.

    I assume salopez ment hour and not house.
     
  9. itsgottobegreen

    itsgottobegreen PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,351

    Steven owns a 16' protech with on his Ford A66. It will do 5 acres or better depending on operator. You also have to remember this is at night when there is no cars around. During the day, you might only beable to get 3 acres etc. We try to use the loaders at night because during the day all the idiots are outs and like to park out in the middle of no where. I also recommend that you have a skid loader on site. Because you do not want to clean curl lines with a loader. Or you will be replacing curbs. We normally have a skid loader being for a lack of better terms being the Loader's *****. To get snow out of tight places and clean up after it.
     
  10. Mark Oomkes

    Mark Oomkes PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 10,853

    That one was worse for sure, but I wasn't plowing then. Also, people just stayed home when the weather got crappy back then.

    You would be fine with a 16-18' ProTech, they'll scrape just fine even on an uneven lot, we started with a 12' and moved up to all 16's. 2 years ago I had an extra pusher so we left the 18' as a backup, my sub wanted to know what happened to the 18', he liked that extra 2' so much we ended up switching it for him.

    Hourly rates, from my experience here in GR, you'll be sitting in a parking lot with your loader collecting snow if you try to get what you should for plowing with a loader. Not sure how it is down in K-zoo. Used to be you could bid a job using a truck, then use a loader in it's place and make good money. Now, all the idiots are bidding the lots at the same hourly rate while figuring on using a loader\pusher. So we've gone backwards this way and the hourly rates are dropping on top of that. Stupid morons.

    For example, a lot that would take 5 hours with a truck will take 1 1/2 with a loader\pusher. So instead of figuring the lot at $500 per push, they'll bid $150 because that's what it'll take to get the job done. (These are just numbers I pulled out of the air for demonstration purposes only)

    So unfotunately, if you're bidding against someone else who is also planning on using a loader\pusher, you will have to factor that in and you will probably not get what you should for the lot.

    This all directly goes back to our wonderful snow god John Allin trying to turn a service into a commodity. An emergency service on top of that.
     
  11. salopez

    salopez Senior Member
    Messages: 873

    I have got to agree with mark.

    People are putting themselves out of business...just like in landscaping.
     
  12. QuadPlower

    QuadPlower PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,056

    The maintenance guy returned my call today and I'm meeting him on Mon afternoon to discuse the details. Went over to the parking lot and drove it with my dump truck. Used a stop watch to see how long it would take to drive from one end to the other, turn around and come back. Drove at speeds I would with a plow. Took about a minute and a half to do the round trip.

    The lot seems a lot smaller than I remembered it and from the airal photos. Probably looking at 3-4 hrs to do it. Only 3 light poles in one lot and 6 in the other.

    I'm not sure if there will be anybody else bidding it. He was not happy with last years crew as they hit a barn off to one side of the lot. I just have to impress him, give an honest bid and see what happens.

    Since the lot is smaller than I thought, I'm thinking about different equipement. I have not done any searching yet on line, but I will after leaving here. The question is: Do these pusher or box blades give a minimum weight, horse power, loader size for a size of blade?

    By the way, thanks for all the info so far.
     
  13. Mark Oomkes

    Mark Oomkes PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 10,853

    I know ProTech gives the weight and\or bucket size recommendations for their pushers. I think they tend to go a little on the low side for the loader, but a lot of it is dependent on the operator.

    I believe their site is www.sno-pusher.com