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Is plowing really that hard?

20K views 68 replies 33 participants last post by  Mike_PS 
#1 ·
To see were im coming from go to thread Partnerships vs doing it alone. So Im hoping to do some subcontracting work this winter. Im imagining all i have to do is have a plow truck and insurance and i should be good to go right? As im typing this feel like there should be more to it then this like i might be missing alot. Im not talking about becoming an LLC or having my own contracts because im just subbing with no other work on the side. Is there something im missing here.
I feel like sub contracting should be a good way to make decent money and get the hang of thing while not dealing with the headache of having 30 seperate contracts for small residential houses. I was hoping to have a mentor who is very actively involved in the plowing buisness to ask many questions to and in person to cover all bases becuase the last thing i want is to invest in equipment and get insurance and have something catostrophic happen that wrecks everything. AM I OVER COMPLICATING THINGS or do i have the right to be so worried?
 
#27 ·
basher;1489375 said:
yes a blinky light is important
Especially in Michigan

Public Act 262
http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(nh...g.aspx?page=getObject&objectName=2011-HB-4146

The Act amends the Michigan Vehicle Code to prohibit the operation of a commercial snow removal vehicle without a flashing or oscillating light, and designate a violation a misdemeanor.

Specifically, the bill would add Section 682c to prohibit a person from operating a commercial snow removal vehicle to remove snow or ice on a public street or highway or in a parking lot accessible for use by the public unless the vehicle were operated with at least one flashing, rotating, or oscillating yellow or amber light that was clearly visible in a 360-degree arc from a distance of 500 feet when in use. A person who leased a commercial snow removal vehicle could not knowingly allow a person to operate it in violation of these requirements.

A person who violated Section 682c would be guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment for up to 90 days and/or a maximum fine of $500.
 
#28 ·
Plowtoy;1489650 said:
Especially in Michigan

Public Act 262
http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(nh...g.aspx?page=getObject&objectName=2011-HB-4146

The Act amends the Michigan Vehicle Code to prohibit the operation of a commercial snow removal vehicle without a flashing or oscillating light, and designate a violation a misdemeanor.

Specifically, the bill would add Section 682c to prohibit a person from operating a commercial snow removal vehicle to remove snow or ice on a public street or highway or in a parking lot accessible for use by the public unless the vehicle were operated with at least one flashing, rotating, or oscillating yellow or amber light that was clearly visible in a 360-degree arc from a distance of 500 feet when in use. A person who leased a commercial snow removal vehicle could not knowingly allow a person to operate it in violation of these requirements.

A person who violated Section 682c would be guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment for up to 90 days and/or a maximum fine of $500.
Every state has their own laws..

In NJ we're not allowed to use an amber flashing light unless we get a special permit from each town we're plowing in. It's against the law to utilize a flashing light on your vehicle unless you are a fireman, first aid, or fuzz or township vehicle, or.... you have the special permits required by law.

No police enforce this as far as I've experienced,.... but its the law.
 
#29 ·
Plowtoy;1489650 said:
Especially in Michigan

Public Act 262
http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(nh...g.aspx?page=getObject&objectName=2011-HB-4146

The Act amends the Michigan Vehicle Code to prohibit the operation of a commercial snow removal vehicle without a flashing or oscillating light, and designate a violation a misdemeanor.

Specifically, the bill would add Section 682c to prohibit a person from operating a commercial snow removal vehicle to remove snow or ice on a public street or highway or in a parking lot accessible for use by the public unless the vehicle were operated with at least one flashing, rotating, or oscillating yellow or amber light that was clearly visible in a 360-degree arc from a distance of 500 feet when in use. A person who leased a commercial snow removal vehicle could not knowingly allow a person to operate it in violation of these requirements.

A person who violated Section 682c would be guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment for up to 90 days and/or a maximum fine of $500.
Who's the ******* that wrote this law?

I really hope the verbage was altered, and is stated as it is for public safety vehicles. "Must be visible from 500 feet under normal conditions".

Because I can guarantee that there are many a time while plowing my blinky light is not visible from 500 feet.
 
#32 ·
dfd9;1489661 said:
Who's the ******* that wrote this law?

I really hope the verbage was altered, and is stated as it is for public safety vehicles. "Must be visible from 500 feet under normal conditions".

Because I can guarantee that there are many a time while plowing my blinky light is not visible from 500 feet..
I had a professor once that said "too harsh a law is worse than no law at all" and "Laws are written to satisfy a committee and therefore deliberately open to interpretation."
 
#33 ·
TCLA;1489665 said:
This is a great thread! :salute:

BTW...did anyone get the memo that MJD is looking for 50 participants to join in on a private Boss plow discussion?

:rolleyes:
grandview;1489673 said:
Only if you live in New Hampshire ,trying to move into Fisher territory
Market research people would call it a focus group.
 
#35 ·
Plowing is more of a PITA than it is "hard".

Pedestrians, cars, parking lot islands, grocery carts, hidden obstacles, where to put the snow, what kind of snow is it (wet or powder), etc. It just gets very monotonous...for me anyway.
 
#37 ·
basher;1489375 said:
Join SIMA take some of their classes attend some of the symposiums or trade shows that are held across the country. If you are going to run your own truck; yes it will need commercial insurance, yes you will need to claim it on your taxes, yes you should have liability insurance to protect yourself, yes devoted winter tires are best, yes two batteries are better but you only need one. Yes plowing is hard on the front end, the extra weight on axle bearings and load points consent steering resistance on steering components, yes timbrens help, yes you should carry a counter weight, yes you need contracts, yes wing/Vee blades are more productive, no you don't have to have one, yes a blinky light is important, yes markers are good, no you should not pile snow in front of non-paying driveways, yes you are on call 24/7 10/1though 4/15, yes 3/4 ton or better trucks with plow prep are best but 1/2 ton will work, no there is no law you have to buy Fisher in Maine, Trip edges do not save transmissions, full trip vees will trip but not as well a a trip edge, only Snoway has down pressure, Douglass Dynamics owns fisher, western, blizzard, Yes you plow on Christmas, salt is better then sand unless the temps drop into the teens, yes liquids are best for pre application, not they don't replace solids in all situations, yes back up cameras help, yes a deflector is a good thing, yes you should carry extra parts, including a shovel and tow strap. Yes you can "short chain" a direct lift, direct lift is faster to respond than a chain lift, yes Fishers and Meyer are Yellow, Boss and Western are Red, Snoway Black (or clear,) Blizzard blades are white, Yes a speedwing is bad to the bone, yes Palmer hates the Fisher Hinge pin, B&B (who pretty much jumped ship) is good with Boss and Chevy, Yes some winters suck, Seasonal contracts should be for 3 years or more, yes you should mix seasonal and per storm contracts. I know I missed things however I'm out of time but that's a start on snowplowing in a nutshell
Extremely WELL PUT!!! :salute:
 
#38 ·
basher;1489670 said:
I had a professor once that said "too harsh a law is worse than no law at all" and "Laws are written to satisfy a committee and therefore deliberately open to interpretation."
And I once did a demo job for a federal judge from NYC who very eloquently in his Irish brogue told me ''It's easier to ask for forgiveness than for permission''.This,after he asked me to do something highly illegal at his home.He didn't like my answer.:rolleyes:
 
#41 ·
WOW.

Basher seems like one seasoned dude...and thanks to ConnerM for getting him going.

Made searching for all the answers in the actual forums WAYYYY easier ;)

That needs to go in the "READ THIS FIRST" section. LOL

Thanks again.

RH
 
#42 ·
B&B;1489496 said:
Better add a disclaimer just to be safe....

*No further purchase or obligation necessary, void where prohibited by law, any portion of these comments can not be duplicated or resold, quantities are limited while supplies last, limit one complimentary set per family please; Not intended for off-road use. Best if used before expiration date. One size fits all. Packaged by weight, not volume: some settling may occur. Not recommended for children under 12, Some assembly required. Use only as directed. No other warranty expressed or implied. If condition persists, consult your doctor. **

**disclaimer does not cover misuse, accident, lightning, flood, tornado, tsunami, volcanic eruption, earthquake, hurricanes and other acts of God, neglect, damage from improper use, incorrect line voltage, improper or unauthorized application, missing or altered components, electromagnetic radiation from nuclear blasts, sonic boom vibrations, customer adjustments that are not covered in this list, and incidents owing to an airplane crash, ship sinking or taking on water, motor vehicle crashing, dropping the item, falling rocks, leaky roof, broken glass, mud slides, forest fire, or projectile (which can include, but not be limited to, arrows, bullets, BB's, shrapnel, lasers, napalm, torpedoes, or emissions of X-rays, Alpha, Beta and Gamma rays, knives, stones, etc.); You may also have additional rights which vary from state to state, other restrictions may apply.
B&B I know this is off the topic but I was wondering if I could get a set of gussets from you for my '07 CBCC duramax. I would have sent you a PM but but for some reason the system wont let me. Thanks
 
#43 ·
KDB33;1500011 said:
B&B I know this is off the topic but I was wondering if I could get a set of gussets from you for my '07 CBCC duramax. I would have sent you a PM but but for some reason the system wont let me. Thanks
There's a ten post minimum here before you can PM. So you'll have to add some thoughts and opinions around the site first. :D
 
#44 ·
B&B;1489496 said:
Better add a disclaimer just to be safe....

*No further purchase or obligation necessary, void where prohibited by law, any portion of these comments can not be duplicated or resold, quantities are limited while supplies last, limit one complimentary set per family please; Not intended for off-road use. Best if used before expiration date. One size fits all. Packaged by weight, not volume: some settling may occur. Not recommended for children under 12, Some assembly required. Use only as directed. No other warranty expressed or implied. If condition persists, consult your doctor. **

**disclaimer does not cover misuse, accident, lightning, flood, tornado, tsunami, volcanic eruption, earthquake, hurricanes and other acts of God, neglect, damage from improper use, incorrect line voltage, improper or unauthorized application, missing or altered components, electromagnetic radiation from nuclear blasts, sonic boom vibrations, customer adjustments that are not covered in this list, and incidents owing to an airplane crash, ship sinking or taking on water, motor vehicle crashing, dropping the item, falling rocks, leaky roof, broken glass, mud slides, forest fire, or projectile (which can include, but not be limited to, arrows, bullets, BB's, shrapnel, lasers, napalm, torpedoes, or emissions of X-rays, Alpha, Beta and Gamma rays, knives, stones, etc.); You may also have additional rights which vary from state to state, other restrictions may apply.
and then there is the "for external use only and not for children, pregnant women and people sensitive to caffine"

Thanks for that info nicely "cliff notes versioned" from some seasoned members that have added a lot to this site. You guys rock. :yow!:
 
#45 ·
ok over the years that i have plowed i have done it on my own, sub contracting, partnerships. the biggest issues with subbing is that one make sure u got damn good insurance. two make sure you have your contract with who ever you are subbing with set. ( make sure everything u want is covered in it) and three make sure it is someone you can trust to pay you. i liked subbing a lot because your not worried bout phone calls from everyone. just one person. its simple and a good way to make money. i however figured if someone can pay me to plow and still make money off it I can deal with some phone calls here and there to make even more.... ( call me greedy but i got a family to take care of and I want the biggest bang for the buck.) thats why i am not subbing this year. i have some people who will call me in a pinch but im on my own this year. hope it works well again for me.
 
#46 ·
Plowtoy;1489650 said:
Especially in Michigan

Public Act 262
http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(nh...g.aspx?page=getObject&objectName=2011-HB-4146

The Act amends the Michigan Vehicle Code to prohibit the operation of a commercial snow removal vehicle without a flashing or oscillating light, and designate a violation a misdemeanor.

Specifically, the bill would add Section 682c to prohibit a person from operating a commercial snow removal vehicle to remove snow or ice on a public street or highway or in a parking lot accessible for use by the public unless the vehicle were operated with at least one flashing, rotating, or oscillating yellow or amber light that was clearly visible in a 360-degree arc from a distance of 500 feet when in use. A person who leased a commercial snow removal vehicle could not knowingly allow a person to operate it in violation of these requirements.

A person who violated Section 682c would be guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment for up to 90 days and/or a maximum fine of $500.
The thing that really SUCKS is that if for some reason your rotating amber light goes out, you are all of a sudden guilty of a misdemeanor. They have made this a freakin' CRIMINAL OFFENSE punishable by prison time and/or a $500 fine.

How many other obstacles are they going to throw out to force people out of business? This is getting insane!
 
#47 ·
RayMich;1506846 said:
The thing that really SUCKS is that if for some reason your rotating amber light goes out, you are all of a sudden guilty of a misdemeanor. They have made this a freakin' CRIMINAL OFFENSE punishable by prison time and/or a $500 fine.

How many other obstacles are they going to throw out to force people out of business? This is getting insane!
if anything pull people over to check their GL insurance....and also if they are lowballing they go straight to jail without passing GO! Thumbs Up
 
#49 ·
mcwlandscaping;1506919 said:
if anything pull people over to check their GL insurance....and also if they are lowballing they go straight to jail without passing GO! Thumbs Up
OK, Pardon my ignorance, but what do you mean by 'GL insurance' and 'lowballing'?

I do have business insurance and the truck is insured as a plow truck with $1,000,000 liability coverage.

I am faily new at this business, so all constructive advice is very much appreciated...

Thanks.
 
#50 ·
RayMich;1506976 said:
OK, Pardon my ignorance, but what do you mean by 'GL insurance' and 'lowballing'?

I do have business insurance and the truck is insured as a plow truck with $1,000,000 liability coverage.

I am faily new at this business, so all constructive advice is very much appreciated...

Thanks.
General Liability insurance. I don't believe in Michigan that the law can make you have GL insurance, but its definitely a good Idea. You have vehicle Liability so if you hit something or someone while your out plowing your covered. GL is for after you leave the site, and somebody slips and falls, or has a crash because you didn't do your job.
Low-balling=someone who under bid a job just to get it. However, prices really depend on several factors so low-balling can have lots of meanings.
 
#51 ·
Plowtoy;1507015 said:
General Liability insurance. I don't believe in Michigan that the law can make you have GL insurance, but its definitely a good Idea. You have vehicle Liability so if you hit something or someone while your out plowing your covered. GL is for after you leave the site, and somebody slips and falls, or has a crash because you didn't do your job.
Low-balling=someone who under bid a job just to get it. However, prices really depend on several factors so low-balling can have lots of meanings.
Thank you! Thumbs Up
 
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