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Including salt on a seasonal

Discussion in 'Ice Management' started by Turf Z, Jan 22, 2015.

  1. Turf Z

    Turf Z Senior Member
    Messages: 223

    Anyone do it? How do you figure # of salts?

    All our seasonals have salt as an added cost but we have a large retail plaza wanting us to bid next year that would want it included in the monthly price.

    Bad idea??
     
  2. grandview

    grandview PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 14,609

    How many time you plow last year ,then at least double it. for salting. I'd give 2 bids ,with and without salt,
     
  3. FreshGrounder1

    FreshGrounder1 Junior Member
    Messages: 26

    Hard to guess, but beware,on the seasonal contracts they always want more and more salt. Pretreat, during, postreat. They know its not extra so they always expect an application even for cold rain....
    Whatever you figure for # of saltings per year, multiply by 3!
     
  4. snowplower1

    snowplower1 Senior Member
    Messages: 773

    figure a price you would typically charge for salting the lot, then multiply by however many times you usually salt and add some because as stated before you will salt more as a contract.

    If it were me i probably wouldnt want to have the salting on a contract for a plaza. as grandview said typically double the amount of times you plow or times 1.5x
     
  5. Mr.Markus

    Mr.Markus PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 5,160

    I quote my worst case scenario based on history and add a 25% flub fact. I also try for 3 yr, to help even out the possibility of a bad year.
     
  6. snowplower1

    snowplower1 Senior Member
    Messages: 773

    also he could put a limit of how many times he will salt
     
  7. Turf Z

    Turf Z Senior Member
    Messages: 223

    I was thinking a limit would be my only saving grace with a contract like this
     
  8. John_DeereGreen

    John_DeereGreen PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,874

    Damn, with terms like everyone except Grandview, how do any of you sell a seasonal?

    I get less complaints from my seasonals for more salt by far than the per push/saltings.
     
  9. andersman02

    andersman02 Senior Member
    Messages: 708

    Yes,

    It REALLY depends on the property, a shopping mall has ALOT of traffic so youll be pre treating and post treating. On the otherhand, some of our offices we do get salt after plowing and ice events ( maybe during if its really bad) because they don't have the kind of traffic. For most of our accounts i'd figure around 1.5.

    I can definately see a plaza being 2-3x though because of the amount of foot traffic and car traffic along with the higher liability of those
     
  10. spiviter

    spiviter Member
    from chicago
    Messages: 74

    I price my seasonal contracts by the ton. It's super simple that way. I have an account that has a 22 ton limit, No matter how many time we have to show up and salt. Simple math, season plow plus 22 tons spread = total. If the go over that amount it states $ per ton spread or I sell them an additional 5 tons spread for $ dollars figured at current salt price as it changes. Never had any problems with that. If they don't use it all I keep it and they already paid for it.
     
  11. Longae29

    Longae29 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,954

    How do you include your plowings and sidewalk clearings on a seasonal? Why wouldn't you calculate salt the same way? By using averages of similar types of accounts/expectations? I'll never understand how its "seasonal" without everything included. (Except pile removal requested by management)
     
  12. snowplower1

    snowplower1 Senior Member
    Messages: 773

    In all honesty, even though i brought up putting a cap on salt, i have never seen it work. I only use it when we are bidding a property i am not greatly interested in so that way ik if i get it I'll make a lot off it. Talk to them first if they would except one.
    We just got back a large account from last year because the guy did not explain his contract to the manager explaining that the price was for plowing only and he would be billed separate for salt. THEY DON'T LIKE SURPRISES. So it's best to make sure you're on the same page and can work something out
     
  13. Drakeslayer

    Drakeslayer 2000 Club Member
    from Carver
    Messages: 2,783

    How does this work? Your customer has no idea how much a ton of salt covers and I'm sure you don't either. Are doing bagged so you know exactly what is going in the hopper? So many questions so little time.
     
  14. Antlerart06

    Antlerart06 PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 3,437

    I have one Seasonal How I did it I look back at my other jobs same size that are per visit What I made for avg of 3 year period

    Then I added 25%
    Last year wasn't much profit. This year looking like will be lots if weather stays like this
     
  15. grandview

    grandview PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 14,609

    Not sure what you mean. the one account that is plow with salt and is seasonal is pretty easy to figure, I base my seasonal on 25 plows so that means 25 saltings .I put down 2 bags each time so its not to hard to figure out a price. Any other salting on this account is on request and extra charge.
     
  16. John_DeereGreen

    John_DeereGreen PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,874

    Exactly. Seasonal means they pay one price, no matter what. The only exception to that is offsite removal. No one wants to pay for it every season but only need it one in 5.

    They want to know what they're paying. I want to know what I have as income. They're willing to take a chance on a heavier than average winter, I'm willing to take a chance on an average or lighter than average. Make it simple, give both parties what they want.

    I think you misstook what I said. You're the only one that had posted in the thread up to my first post that does seasonal the way it makes any sense.

    How the hell can someone call an account a seasonal contract and then put a limit on plowing, or charge extra for salt? That's not a seasonal. That's no better than a per push/salting account. What happens if we have a bad winter? You plow as little as possible, and salt as much as possible. Tada, customer loses the benfits of the seasonal contract.

    Take your 5 season average of plowing, 5 season average of salting, and multiply by your per service price if the account were per occurance. How is that complex?
     
  17. Turf Z

    Turf Z Senior Member
    Messages: 223

    Well it makes sense to me to include everything on a seasonal. But typically on the RFP salt is an understood extra.
     
  18. JD Dave

    JD Dave PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 11,045

    Most of our work is seasonals. Plowing, salt and loader work are all included. Any off site or on site hauling is extra. Billing is simple, you make all the decisions and generally you get very little complaints. The customer gets equal billing and no surprises. Why everyone wants seasonals around here is because way to many contractors would basically loose money to plow the lot and then charge double or triple what the actual salt price should be.
     
  19. snowplower1

    snowplower1 Senior Member
    Messages: 773

    Honestly i think as i grow and get to a point im content with i will get rid of contracts that dont have salting. it sucks to plow when there is ice then it snows.
     
  20. spiviter

    spiviter Member
    from chicago
    Messages: 74

    I use Bulk, Bag, And Liquids. Trust me I know what I put down. Been doing this for years. Each event has a different application rate pounds / gallons per acre. Liquid has Markings on the sprayer / bulk tanks. Bags you keep count of and bulk is kept on site at customers property. All my contracts include unlimited plowing and shoveling no matter if its 5 or 25 events. There is only a cap on salting. I'm about a hand full of guys who uses more liquid on sidewalks then wasting bagged products. People who don't use liquid brine are wasting good profit and product.