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Immediatel HELP needed PLEASE PLEASE!

Discussion in 'Commercial Snow Removal' started by mylittlescoop, Jan 19, 2006.

  1. mylittlescoop

    mylittlescoop Senior Member
    from nj
    Messages: 101

    Can anyone interpret this kind of billing?
    Upon arrival of 2” or less snow parking lot will be plowed at a flat rate of 485.00 and salting at 165.00 a ton


    Snow above 2’ will be cleared at the following rates

    Snow plow and operator is 125.00 per hour 95.00 min

    Snow shoveling is 50.00 per hour 35.00 min

    Snow blowers are 70.00 per hour 55.00 min

    Front end loader and operator are 130.00 per hour

    In the event that it snows 4 inches or above snow will be cleared at 90.00 per inch


    Is this type of billing per truck,or a flat rate per job?
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2006
  2. crazymike

    crazymike Senior Member
    from Toronto
    Messages: 639


    from what I understand... you are trying to low ball the lowballer. Be careful in the event that the second party finds out you saw their bid. This is not only illegal in most cases, but also something that might piss him off.

    Bid for the minimum amount that you can afford, if it's cheaper than that guys bid you win. If it's not then why do it for cheaper than you can afford. If you can find a cheaper way of doing it, using an extra truck and no loader, or a skid steer instead of a loader and a truck, etc...

    There is no point of doing it cheaper than you can afford as it will cost you in the end. For the most part, snow removal has never been about getting rich. It's about keeping equipment busy in the off season.
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2006
  3. mylittlescoop

    mylittlescoop Senior Member
    from nj
    Messages: 101

    We have 3 bobcats
    2-2006 dumpsters with the brnd new commercial plow westerns
    1-2005 dodge ram charger 2500
    1 2006 dodge ram with a brand new fisher
    I am just new to this kind of billing.
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2006
  4. crazymike

    crazymike Senior Member
    from Toronto
    Messages: 639


    If possible skip the loader and just use the dump in place of the loader and atleast one pickup. Use the bobcat to do as much of the shoveling as you can. and it can also replace another truck if it has hi flow.
     
  5. justme-

    justme- 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,138

    It's a combination bid- less than 2 inchs accumulation is a flat rate (cleared for $X and salted for $X).
    The rest is spitting out hourly charges for storms over 2 inchs accumulation with the rate per hour for each action then followed by the minimum charge for said action.

    If you wrote the bid you'd understand it, and the equipment you have is irrelevent to the postings.

    Bid what you can afford to do the work for as Crazymike said- if you got a sneek at someone elses bid for a job there's a big can-o-worms....
     
  6. Grn Mtn

    Grn Mtn PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,644

    Wait, I'm confused. You won this contract (In a manor most won't approve of) and you don't get to dictate the billing? Thats weird.

    Its a flat rate for under 2" Over 2" its billed per equipment/operator. At least that is how I interpret it.

    On my very first commercial account I told them I had know idea how to price commercial, and asked them what the current rate was. I looked at the account, the equipment I had, how long I thought it would take me and came up with my own figures. Ended up I submitted my own unique bid that was HIGHER than the numbers that were told to me...and I won the bid.
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2006
  7. larryjlk

    larryjlk Member
    Messages: 66

    Seems to me that the bid is both flat rate and per truck. under 2" is obviously flat rate but when you bill by the hour it doesn't make any difference how many trucks you use whether it's 1 truck 1 hour or 2 trucks 1/2 hour ea. its gonna be the same amount. It seems to me that when you bill by the inch its still flat rate. But if I knew anything I wouldn't be in this business anyways.
     
  8. mylittlescoop

    mylittlescoop Senior Member
    from nj
    Messages: 101

    Yeah well yopu have to understand this is new o me when I did it it was pr hour, they want to be billed flat rate. FLAT RATE is what is confusing me is flat rate per truck, per hour, or is it flat rate for the whole job?
    The example of the fla rte bid I was looking at confused me. Not sure how you bill flat rate THATS what I was confused about ggrrr.
    LOL This industry is changing so much. There are so many people with equipoment and with so little snow now everyone is hungry. I was only questioning knowladge to the flat rate bill.
    If they have 8 trucks out plowing with 4 inches of snow you r telling me that it is 800.00 per the whole job except for the equipment I am using for my clean up and removing snow from the street.
    YES! Crazy Mike IS right and JUST ME that makes sense. A LOT OF SENSE.
    I am sorry lol like I said I AM KINDA old school new to this kind of rate
     
  9. Grn Mtn

    Grn Mtn PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,644

    Thats funny


    MyLittleScoop: Flat rate means it doesn't matter how many pieces of eq, or man power you have $xxx is all you get if its under 2"
     
  10. sir spaniourd

    sir spaniourd Senior Member
    Messages: 286

    Why don't you ask them. The worst thing you can do is to assume anything. Ask them what do they mean. To me that pricing can be interpreted in different ways.
     
  11. mylittlescoop

    mylittlescoop Senior Member
    from nj
    Messages: 101

    Thanks :) It is so polical around here everybody, maybe they just want me to make a fool of myself:dizzy:



    Thanks, I just needed a confidence booster . Writing things down and hearing feedback helps get an understanding. I think thats just what the doctor ordered.

    It has not snowed but 1 inch here so far. Its crazy the way mother nature is working. 3 it was snowing back to back and has decreased ever since .
     
  12. Grn Mtn

    Grn Mtn PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,644

    there is a ton of opinions around here, some seem to enjoy just harsh criticizism. PlowSite holds a wealth of info, most of it is really good, take the good and have fun getting back into the business.
     
  13. larryjlk

    larryjlk Member
    Messages: 66

    If someone asked me to quote on a "flat rate" I'd be confused too since that is not a term we use around here. It could mean a price to clean the lot one time or perhaps they're looking for a seasonal price. I wouldn't mention the options that I thought it could be (because they will most likely ask you to bid it both ways) but like Sir said above, I'd ask them to define "flat rate". Once it's clear what they are looking for you can bid accordingly. :)
     
  14. crazymike

    crazymike Senior Member
    from Toronto
    Messages: 639

    For the most part, the company doesn't want to see your break down of prices per equipment. They just want to know how much it will cost them. Quite frankly most people don't know the difference between a loader and a bob cat and which can push more snow, etc... They just want a per push or per hour price to make their decision.

    You can offer a breakdown to explain why your price is what it is. But for the most part they don't care if you do it with one truck or an entire army of trucks. As long as it's done by the morning and properly.

    That said your hourly rates might differ depending on the size of the storm. If you have under 2" and you plow with just pickups you will be cheaper than plowing 6" and bringing in a loader, etc...

    Or you can give them a flat rate and hope it evens out.
     
  15. xlr8

    xlr8 Senior Member
    Messages: 107

    Over 4" @ $90 an inch =$360
    two or less inches @ $485=$242.50 an inch????????
    I would hope for a lot of 2" or less storms.
     
  16. JTW

    JTW Senior Member
    Messages: 137


    I was thinking the same thing... I hope that is $90 per inch over and above the flat rate.
     
  17. justme-

    justme- 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,138

    It's not political- we, in general, don't want to encourage or educate those subverting the right way to do things... thereby damaging our own business, know what I mean? Sorry to be so harsh- a different wording in your original question might have helped us understand more specifically what you meant (and why).

    Flat rate is flate rate- The job X costs cost Y to do. Period. You can do a Firm flat rate- it costs $900 per event to plow said lot, for example. So no matter what amount of snow falls (2 inches, 10 inches, 24 inches), what equipment used (1 truck, 10 trucks, 4 loaders, 79 teen agers with shovels...) or how long it takes to clear (10 minutes, 4 hours, 36 hours) the cost is Alwyas the same- $900. For most plower that's unreasonable because the amount we need to handle a major event could never be contracted for without an angry customer for a single 3 inch storm.
    The common varient is a flat rate per inch, so if someone had a lot and requested a flate rate for plowing it means (for example) $90 for 2 inches, 110 for 4 inches, 140 for 6 inches.
    Whatever the given amount of snow is, the rate is flixed for plowing it- reguardless of the amount of equipment used or the time it takes. I could use 1 truck and take 4 hours or 4 trucks and take 1 hour, but the charge is the same. Flate rate.

    Hourly is when you say, $65/hour per truck, $25 per hour for shoveling, $190/hour per hour for a loader. (then typically add minimum amounts so you don't get yourself stiffed- 1/2 hour minimum for instance to avoid hauling a loader in for 15 minutes and only billing for $47 when it costs that in fuel and driver time.)
    You can also complicate this by charging "man-hours" or "truck-hours", meaning: $50 per hour per truck, so 1 truck does a job in 4 hours resulting in a $200 bill, 4 trucks do the same job (at $50 per hour PER truck) in 1 hour and result in the SAME bill for $200. When I used to do odd jobs and construction I always included Man-hours so if I needed help it was covered fairly.

    Per push is "every time I come and plow I charge $x amount. If I plow every 3 inches and we have a six inch storm I charge $x times 2."
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2006
  18. DeereFarmer

    DeereFarmer PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 3,296

    Lowballers are bad, but the lowballer's lowballer is worse!;) :waving: