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Idea I have

Discussion in 'Western Plows Discussion' started by Zodiac, Jul 9, 2008.

  1. Zodiac

    Zodiac Member
    Messages: 76

    Alright, I've got an old 7'6" cable operated Western plow.

    I've always admired the SnoWay plows, but only because they offer 400lbs of downforce. And enable you to backdrag better.

    So here's an idea I have, and I have been kicking around.

    I've looked at a ton of pictures of Sno-Way plows, and they all just use an inverted hydraulic cylinder to lift or push down on the plow...

    At work we had a brand new 303C mini excavator someone rented, but then looks like they tried to lift concrete or something with the boom.

    They ended up gouging the outside of the cylinder, not bad, but bad enough for a brand new machine with four or five hours on it.

    It had to be replaced. The cylinder runs about $2200 retail.

    I saved the old cylinder.

    It has approximately a 4" bore, 36" stroke.

    Now I realize 36 inches is about 2 feet longer than I really need, but I've been thinking...

    I wonder if the Western pump would put out the pressures and the flow needed to move this cylinder in and out.

    If it could, it would be easy to fabricate a mount for it, and then attach it to the plow's A-frame.

    Does anyone have and specs on what the old Western plows put out for flow and pressure?

    I know it's minimal, but I'm interested now.
  2. grandview

    grandview PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 14,609

    Why do I see you sending a picture of Jimmy Buffett to B&B tomorrow!
  3. wild bill

    wild bill PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,239

    way big

    well you cant get here from here cylinder is way to big ,the pump only put's out 1850 psi optimum only about 1 1/2 to 2 gpm i believe it's based to use a 1 1/2 ram that only strokes 6" you would need a major increase in gpm and pressure .better completely design one right from scratch , or buy a snoway .it might be cheaper .:dizzy:
  4. B&B

    B&B PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 12,777

    The stroke length isn't the major concern Chad, its the bore size. 2000 psi in a 4" bore is enough to easily lift the truck COMPLETELY OFF THE GROUND.

    Theoretically it is possible to do but just not practical... far from worth the effort with the components you have available. As unfortunately your going to need about $500-$800 worth of hydraulic valves/coils and a custom built manifold to make it happen, along with some type of pressure relief valve plumbed into the side of the cylinder your using for the down pressure....as the Western pump is capable of 2000 psi (and more) of output pressure. So unless it's regulated, a 4" bore ram and 2000psi of hydro press your not looking at down pressure...your looking at extreme down pressure along with broken parts real fast. It's going to empty the reservoir in a hurry as well.

    A 1" bore cyl running at full pump press (2000psi) is enough to add over 500 lbs of down pressure and will nearly fully unload the front suspension of the truck. 4" is way overkill unless you have a means to regulate it.
  5. basher

    basher PlowSite Fanatic
    from 19707
    Messages: 8,990

    I think Mike was conservative in his estimation of parts cost and no one has mentioned the cost of, hoses, harness and switches. Your cable controls aren't going to make it, you would have to create a control system that would incorporate both the cables and a switch for controlling the DP solenoid . you will also need an aux. fluid tank and to relocate the western pump to make a location for the ram centered of the unit.

    If you wanted to modify some other type of plow then SW to get the DP experience, i would recommend you start with a unit already using a "direct lift" system (Boss or Blizzard.)

    I can sell you a used Snoway ( have a complete unit for your vehicle) with controls, harness and mounts for less then you'll spend on the machining cost of the manifold.

    BUT if you do take this project on would love to hear about the results.

    Good luck, welcome to plowsite:waving:, and don't forget to send B&B his breakfast buffet LOL
  6. Zodiac

    Zodiac Member
    Messages: 76

    Yeah I would have to plan out the whole hydraulic system and then start to figure out prices.

    I get Cat parts for cost, so I can get SOME things for cheap, valve blocks are probably not one of them. I can probably find a used valve block at work and use that. The downside to this is almost ALL Cat machines use pilot hydraulics, so not only would I need a totally new hydraulic system for the DP ram, I'd new a second hydraulic system to control it. And another pump to run that too.

    We do have lifts that use electro-hydraulic valves. That might work, and I could probably source a valve block from a lift too. That would be more unrealistic, as most lifts have pressure going up, and then just regulate their down speed, sans pump.

    This idea still interests me, but I need tons more planning.

    And I REALLY need to find a use for this hydraulic cylinder.
  7. basher

    basher PlowSite Fanatic
    from 19707
    Messages: 8,990

    You could use a Snoway smo1 pump as a replacement for the western pump then you could use SW controls, though you'd still need to deal with the fluid demands.
  8. B&B

    B&B PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 12,777

    It'd be perfect for a log splitter. :nod:
  9. plowman4life

    plowman4life Senior Member
    Messages: 557

    it would even be overkill for a log splitter.
  10. B&B

    B&B PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 12,777

    Many log splitters use a 4" bore ram. :nod:
  11. Beater_K20

    Beater_K20 Member
    Messages: 65

    i fixed it for you.
  12. Zodiac

    Zodiac Member
    Messages: 76

    Actually, that's probably what it's going to be.

    I've got a steel I beam now, I need to find a decent motor and a pump, that's going to be pretty hard, especially because I don't want to buy a new one.

    Interesting thing though, at work I took a Caterpillar four cylinder diesel motor out of a machine on warranty. The company that I took it out for, doesn't want the thing back. The company I work for doesn't want the thing. So I took it.

    I found out that the left side motor mount was mounted wrong, and was rubbing on the side. A plug came off the side of the motor, and had fluid going everywhere. I tapped it and put a threaded plug in, and the motor runs great.

    The guys at work were saying I should use the CAT diesel on the log splitter, I would, just for amusement alone, but it WOULD be overkill.

    EDIT: I also have NO use for a log splitter. Never have, used one once. So I have NO idea what I'm going to do with this thing when it's done. And also, the girlfriend reminded me today I need to FINISH one project before I start another one.
  13. LawnProLandscapes

    LawnProLandscapes PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,129

    hey you might not need it but itd be the baddest log splitter around :salute: