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Ice Management ! I have a Quetion

Discussion in 'Ice Management' started by BIG DRIFT, Feb 2, 2007.

  1. BIG DRIFT

    BIG DRIFT Member
    Messages: 62

    If you are now using liquid salt(lets say) why did you switch from salt and sand? Has it been better or worse to use.


    Thank you BIG DRIFT:salute:
     
  2. Grn Mtn

    Grn Mtn PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,644

    no one would switch from solids to just liquids.
     
  3. BIG DRIFT

    BIG DRIFT Member
    Messages: 62


    They have. In my area my buddy wants to go only wet. I just told him i would ask around. i'm finding that some company's just use a liquid instead of straight salt.
     
  4. Grn Mtn

    Grn Mtn PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,644

    They will learn soon enough that liquid is just one tool in managing deicing and anti-icing. And brine is the worst (and cheepest). Mag and Cal Chlorides have better melting properties and get anti-rust additives mixed in making those solutions more environmentally friendly.
     
  5. BIG DRIFT

    BIG DRIFT Member
    Messages: 62


    I have heard that there"wet" not that good under 25 degrees. is there any truth to that.

    BD
     
  6. Grn Mtn

    Grn Mtn PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,644

    Mag and Cal work well below 0*, the key is the % of concentration in the solution. If I remember from the training seminar I went to this past year 32% is the highest concentration you can have. The lower that number the quicker the solution will become saturated (Diluted) from the melting snow and the refreeze point jumps back up. IE, you buy brand X with 14% concentration MagChloride and it works for 1" of snow at 20*, but the good stuff at max % will melt 3" and remain viable to below 0*.--Kind of a bad example but the best I could come up with without finding my notes.
     
  7. BIG DRIFT

    BIG DRIFT Member
    Messages: 62


    You have good info on this.
     
  8. elmo1537

    elmo1537 Senior Member
    Messages: 116

    As green mountain has mentioned it would be fooish to go to just liquid. If you used liquid as a pre treat and then used something like magic salt post snow you results will be much better.
     
  9. BIG DRIFT

    BIG DRIFT Member
    Messages: 62


    Thank you elmo:waving: great info:)
     
  10. Mark Witcher

    Mark Witcher Senior Member
    Messages: 604

    Mag chloride doesnt work much below 20 degrees. Calcium chloride works down to 0 degrees or less. All I use is liquid deicer materials. Sand is not an option for many places because the stores dont like the sand getting tracked into the building.
     
  11. DAFFMOBILEWASH

    DAFFMOBILEWASH PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,596

    Salt brime used when pre wetting aids in the flash time for the melting process of snow and ice. But to give the salt a kick try prewetting with Sodium Chloride. Just got done looking at the brocure I picked up this fall. The phase diagram bottoms out at -30'f where salt is done at -4'f. Sure wished I fished the pre wet system during that warm spell. It's hard to due those projects when the equipment isn't making any money. Iv'e herd through the grape vine that just using liquid Sodium Chloride is a risky venture. Can it really flash almost instantly with black ice???? These rumors can freek a guy out!!! Thanks for your expertese.

    DAFF
     
  12. J J Landscaping

    J J Landscaping Junior Member
    Messages: 28

    J J Landscaping

    elmo - I would like to hear that again. Liquid is just starting here but by very few. You said magic salt so i would like to know how well a tank unit full of magic salt works for de-ice. I am trying to get all the rite info on parts and magic salt so i can make a unit for next winter. - Jimmy
     
  13. NorthernSvc's

    NorthernSvc's Senior Member
    Messages: 766

    heres how we do it

    pre treat oads with brine - before storm - prevents ice from bonding to pavement reduces roll of salt and you have exact placement , we pretreat with a mix of brine and calc if temp supposed to get below 10

    plow

    follow up rock salting with brine treatment when temps above 10 - this helps salt activate faster - we spray rock salt as it is coming out of hoppers - pre wetting - we use calcium chloride if temps below 10

    works pretty darn good

    liquids have there place and so do solids, they both have there up's and downs, but together they offer something that neither can do alone.
     
  14. J J Landscaping

    J J Landscaping Junior Member
    Messages: 28

    J J Landscaping

    Mark Witcher - I,ve been useing calcium choride flake for about 15 years on enterances of building. It keeps the sand out of inside. I will be only the 2nd contrator rite in my area to have a unit in my truck. How well has cal liquid worked out for you in de-iceing and if you use any magic salt only as de-ice. Jimmy
     
  15. Grn Mtn

    Grn Mtn PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,644

    http://www.oag.state.ny.us/environment/deicer.html

    neat little article...


    BTW daffmobilwash: Salt is Sodium Chloride, your remarks seemed to hint liquid Sodium Chloride was something different.

    Mark Witcher: Are you sure about the freeze point of MgCl at 20*? I believe it is much lower than that.
     
  16. DAFFMOBILEWASH

    DAFFMOBILEWASH PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,596

    :dizzy: :dizzy: I guess that is what happens after getting tecnicial after a long day.:sleeping: :sleeping: I was refering to Calcium Chloride instead of sodium chloride.

    Hey at least someone is paying attention while reading these posts!!

    What is the going rate for Calcium Chloride, got a quote of $0.20 /liter, about $0.80/gal. by a local distributer, Good or bad??
     
  17. BIG DRIFT

    BIG DRIFT Member
    Messages: 62

    Testing i'm not getting my emails:confused:
     
  18. elmo1537

    elmo1537 Senior Member
    Messages: 116

    magic salt and the liquid magic are completely different.

    Magic 0 as it is called is just a liquid it is used mostly by itself as a pretreatment so that snow and ice will not bond to the pavement or blacktop.

    Magic Salt is regular rock salt and Magic 0 mixed together. The reason magic salt works so well is when you mix the two it reduces the melting temp of rock salt from 32 degrees to about -27 degrees now I personally have seen magic salt melt snow and ice and low as -5 (pavement temp) so I cant tell you for sure that it really works at -27.

    Once magic salt has been applied a couple of times it actually leaves a residual on the pavement and it is almost like pretreating. We tried it one time on a parking lot we take care of. Half the lot we used magic salt and the other half we used regular rock salt. When we used it we noticed the magic side was clear in about half the time as the rock salt side. The cool part was two days later we had a dusting went back to salt the parking lot and we only had to salt the half of the parking lot that we had used straight rock salt on. The magic salt had apparently melted off the snow with just the residual that was left over from two days before.

    I am not trying to be sales man but from my personal experience regular rock salt does not hold a candle to this stuff. This year we have switched completely to magic salt and magic 0 and I have no intentions of switching back in the near future.

    Our customers have even commented that they always have the cleanest lots in the area. That is all I need to stay with magic.
     
  19. J J Landscaping

    J J Landscaping Junior Member
    Messages: 28

    J J Landscaping

    Yhank You ( NorthernSvc's ) and ( elmo1537 ) Those to posts were very important for me. Jimmy